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View Full Version : Patrick Chan deserves his scores



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Mariko88
11-22-2010, 08:34 PM
Yup, I do think that. :D As unpopular as it might be here.

Not unpopular, just absolute idiocy to think that.

Mariko88
11-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Chan is brilliant! BRILLIANT! I saw the top 6 SPs from COR today, then quickly glanced over the pbp. I CANNOT believe people actually thought he should've placed 3rd, and were shocked with his scores. I love me some Abbott and Verner, but were we watching the same SPs? Chan fell on the 3-axel, but every single one of his other elements were simply the BEST. His SP footwork sequence is probably my all-time favorite straight line footwork sequence by a male skater... EVER. (sorry Yagudin fans). Nothing compares to it's brilliance. Then that glorious Quad-triple (who said you can't do a quad-triple out of footwork, and that 30-seconds cross overs are a must?) the spins were brilliant, fastest and most centered of any other skater at COR. his flip was also a thing of beauty.

Abbott, who did not fall, has a great footwork sequence, and a very nice 3-axel. His 3-3 was just ok, and the solo jump was weak, low, and he just hung on to it. 2 of his spins (the up-right and the combo) were not good. Oh yeah, and no quad! That's a 4-point deficit right there.

And Verner, who I love, had a bad landing on his 3-axel, and he lips. The less I say about his flying camel the better. I like his program, but no way I'd have scored it any where near Chan today.

I personally get a kick of posters blowing a gasket everytime his scores show up :rofl: doesn't bother me a bit, so long as the judges keep rewarding his once-in-a-generation talent.

CHAN CHAN CHAN!

Wrong wrong wrong

briancoogaert
11-22-2010, 09:15 PM
Wrong wrong wrong
Thanks for your clarification. Nice post :P

euterpe
11-22-2010, 09:22 PM
skaters are told not to comment on the marking.

Saying the judges "wanted to give me the marks" isn't commenting on the marking?

Dragonlady
11-22-2010, 09:29 PM
Saying the judges "wanted to give me the marks" isn't commenting on the marking?

It's not saying the marks are wrong, or questioning the judges' decision.

euterpe
11-22-2010, 09:38 PM
It's not saying the marks are wrong, or questioning the judges' decision.

But he went on to say that the judges knew he could do the jumps because they saw him do it in practice.

Perhaps the judges aren't comfortable with the public knowing that they are not judging based on the actual performances, but on practice sessions.

purple skates
11-22-2010, 11:38 PM
Although you (Dragonlady) are absolutely correct that we shoudn't blame Chan himself for the judges marks, he turned me off of his personality based on his comments surrounding the Olympics. I haven't seen anything this year to change that bias, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Yes, it probably does color my opinion of him, right or wrong.

However, this aside, a three fall short program should never, never, never put you in a position to win a competition. I don't care if you are the skating king of the world. That is a system problem, not a Chan problem, and I hope things are changed next year for the short program to make sure that skaters are punished more strongly for missing required elements, including spins and footwork.

alilou
11-23-2010, 02:02 AM
There is a lovely breakdown in the CoR men's blog in GoldenSkate that compares Chan SC to Dai Olympics on the scores. It's very enlightening.

For those who want to read this it's in the COR mens free thread, post 287.

(Hope it's ok to put this here :shuffle:)

bbkenn
11-23-2010, 05:17 AM
Arggh. I rewatched Patrick's SP and LP twice right now.
No, he does not deserve the best scores of the competition in Interpretation.
Interpretation is the ability of a body to internalize borrowed material, make it one's own and blend it with one's personality, creating something new in the process.
What Patrick has is amazing SS. His interpretation is rudimentary; he skates like a virtuoso, but OVER his material, not in it. His legs are amazing. His hands and upper body are stiff, and he does not change anything in his carriage when music changes. The slow, middle part of Phantom is a rest and feels like one- the body language does not react to lyricism with a tangible change. In Take Five his body does not accentuate the main thing in the piece- the constant 3+2 of the rhythm. In contrast, Kozuka's Take Five from 2008- 2009 just oozes the jazziness and awareness of shifting accents. THAT's interpretation. What Patrick does so far is brilliantly proficient skating with not much awareness of what's going on musically. So when he gets the highest interpretation marks of the competition, I get frustrated to no end. And no, I do not "hate" him, that's just silly. But while acknowledging what he skates great, it's hard to bear him being gifted for things he does not excell in. I saw him live several times, and my impressions live are the same.

I am surprised by this because he is a pianist as well, and they very often feel the music. I'll have to watch his skating over again.

dinakt
11-23-2010, 06:03 AM
I am surprised by this because he is a pianist as well, and they very often feel the music. I'll have to watch his skating over again.
I'd love to know what you think.
I feel the need to backpedal a bit, as well. I am not saying he cannot feel music- i am saying that in his SP and LP, the way they are now, he does not react to music much- perhaps he cannot , busy as he is filling every second of it. Michael Flatley Lord of the Dance comes to mind, amazing in his own right, but that's just one way, not THE way to dance.
But I also dislike absolutes, and will be re- watching myself, trying to get to the bottom of it. Perhaps constant busyness without mood differentiation is alien to me.

Debrah
11-23-2010, 06:25 AM
Yes he does, he is a brilliant skater.

Bournekraatzfan
11-23-2010, 06:57 AM
Right now, the judges have to keep all the PCS scores for the same skater within a certain range, or they get written up. I think that should be changed to allow variation in the PCS scores for specific reasons, such as falls in a segment, and make some of those variations mandatory.

I also believe if a skater fell 3 times in a SP, the penalties would be greater than for the same number of falls in the FS because there are fewer elements in the SP and the impact of the falls is greater.



ITA. and I agree that these falls should be reflected at the very least in the performance scores. Chan, IMO, is a masterful performer, but that many falls do detract from the performance.

I think the PC is incorrectly scored for many skaters. As you have noted all the PCS categories are kept in the same range when they can vary greatly for a particular performance. and non-existent transitions have been rewarded for Mao (who I love but I feel needs better programs), Evgeni, Brian Joubert, etc. I really hope that judges take a serious look at how PCS is evaluated.

Bournekraatzfan
11-23-2010, 06:58 AM
Yes he does, he is a brilliant skater.

I agree...and he acknowledges the music in very complex ways.

Marco
11-23-2010, 07:28 AM
His program is almost too busy and he has no time left to feel or interpret the music. He has good pacing but too much is going on with his feet that he can't do more with his arms or face.

kosjenka
11-23-2010, 02:18 PM
I generally dont have problems with skaters personalities and their on ice performance, but I strongly dislike him as a person. And by that I mean what he showed off in skating media so to say. I could take in that he is not like that in real life or that he has been misinterpreted.
Skating wise, he is lovely to watch. Yes, sometimes i really get bored with his programs and am annoyed with him skating the same program again.
Even the finest quality skating is boring when you see it done the same way again and again.


If your falling multiple times in one program, than I'm sorry that can hardly be considered a good skate. Even if your basics and edges are to die for. One half of the mark, shouldn't be set and stone before the skating even starts. And considering Chan's PCS are similar when he skates well and when he doesn't skate well, well lets just say its troubling.

This is my problem too.
It just reminds me on presentation mark in 6.0 system.
Whatever you do, however sloppy, solid or well you skate, you second mark will ensure you have your same place. This was so evident in ice dance and that was why generations had to WAIT their turn to get up in rankings.

I do not like this now again. If I were a skater, it would offend me.