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piano18
11-20-2010, 11:26 PM
I still love his skating :swoon:

mia joy
11-20-2010, 11:39 PM
I just love his skating. So brilliant skills. :swoon:Do not care for Oda, Rippon, Abbot.

Except skating skills are not everything. There still is such thing as interpretation and performance, you know :P showing some emotion wouldn't harm anyone.

besides, if his skills are so brilliant, why is it so rare to see him skate a clean FP?

piano18
11-20-2010, 11:43 PM
I didn't say he was never overscored. But his skating = marvelous. Brilliant..

senorita
11-21-2010, 12:10 AM
... and the earth is a cube ... :rofl: :rofl: :violin:

it is NOT?:eek::barrel

nlyoung
11-21-2010, 01:11 AM
Chan also gets much higher GOE for his landed jumps than he deserves for most of them. His jumps are not that big or impressive yet get huge GOE if he even stands them up which is a joke. Which explains his perplexingly high TES even with falls as well.

His GOE marks on jumps take into consideration the complicated steps going into and out of jumps, not just "height". It is much more difficult to do the jumps this way and he is rewarded accordingly. This is how the rulebook indicates GOE should be determined. "Big" jumps may be impressive, but that isn't the only criteria.

aftershocks
11-21-2010, 02:19 AM
Arggh. I rewatched Patrick's SP and LP twice right now.
No, he does not deserve the best scores of the competition in Interpretation.
Interpretation is the ability of a body to internalize borrowed material, make it one's own and blend it with one's personality, creating something new in the process.
What Patrick has is amazing SS. His interpretation is rudimentary; he skates like a virtuoso, but OVER his material, not in it. His legs are amazing. His hands and upper body are stiff, and he does not change anything in his carriage when music changes. The slow, middle part of Phantom is a rest and feels like one- the body language does not react to lyricism with a tangible change. In Take Five his body does not accentuate the main thing in the piece- the constant 3+2 of the rhythm. In contrast, Kozuka's Take Five from 2008- 2009 just oozes the jazziness and awareness of shifting accents. THAT's interpretation. What Patrick does so far is brilliantly proficient skating with not much awareness of what's going on musically. So when he gets the highest interpretation marks of the competition, I get frustrated to no end. And no, I do not "hate" him, that's just silly. But while acknowledging what he skates great, it's hard to bear him being gifted for things he does not excell in. I saw him live several times, and my impressions live are the same.


:respec: :respec: :respec:

rococo
11-21-2010, 02:28 AM
Takahashi for starter is a better skater ;)
Maybe I'm alone, but I'm really tired of all the whining and snarking about Patrick Chan's scores. I actually don't think he has been overscored at all. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-7H60-jJyg

It's time for some of us to start standing up for the minority view at FSU. I honestly can't think of a single skater right now who skates this well. And I think all the folks who are whining about "chanflation" need to name a skater who is better than this. Or shut up. ;)

And I'm not even Canadian. :shuffle:

Jenna
11-21-2010, 02:31 AM
... and the earth is a cube ... :rofl: :rofl: :violin:

....and you are an idiot.

ks1227
11-21-2010, 02:38 AM
In contrast, Kozuka's Take Five from 2008- 2009 just oozes the jazziness and awareness of shifting accents. THAT's interpretation. What Patrick does so far is brilliantly proficient skating with not much awareness of what's going on musically. So when he gets the highest interpretation marks of the competition, I get frustrated to no end.
Actually, I agree with you that Kozuka is usually very underscored for his wonderful skating. His Take Five was a masterpiece! :swoon: (See my "location"! ;) ) But I think you're overstating Chan's lack of relation to the music.


There isnt one program he has skated this year with a completely fair score but the SP here was the closest.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Takahashi for starter is a better skater ;)
I don't disagree with this. And Takahashi also has problems with consistency on his jumps, like Chan. Why don't we hear as many complaints about Takahashi's marks?

A Worlds podium with Takahashi, Chan and Kozuka in any order would be perfect IMO.

ks777
11-21-2010, 04:12 AM
Arggh. I rewatched Patrick's SP and LP twice right now.
No, he does not deserve the best scores of the competition in Interpretation.
Interpretation is the ability of a body to internalize borrowed material, make it one's own and blend it with one's personality, creating something new in the process.
What Patrick has is amazing SS. His interpretation is rudimentary; he skates like a virtuoso, but OVER his material, not in it. His legs are amazing. His hands and upper body are stiff, and he does not change anything in his carriage when music changes. The slow, middle part of Phantom is a rest and feels like one- the body language does not react to lyricism with a tangible change. In Take Five his body does not accentuate the main thing in the piece- the constant 3+2 of the rhythm. In contrast, Kozuka's Take Five from 2008- 2009 just oozes the jazziness and awareness of shifting accents. THAT's interpretation. What Patrick does so far is brilliantly proficient skating with not much awareness of what's going on musically. So when he gets the highest interpretation marks of the competition, I get frustrated to no end. And no, I do not "hate" him, that's just silly. But while acknowledging what he skates great, it's hard to bear him being gifted for things he does not excell in. I saw him live several times, and my impressions live are the same.

ITA.

VIETgrlTerifa
11-21-2010, 04:16 AM
I was really confused just now, until I realized that one poster was ks1227 and the other was ks777.

ks777
11-21-2010, 04:18 AM
Takahashi also has problems with consistency on his jumps, like Chan. Why don't we hear as many complaints about Takahashi's marks?


Because Takahashi actually skates to the music and Chan isn't relating to music at all. His programs all look very much the same to me.

judgejudy27
11-21-2010, 04:23 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

From you I take as a compliment. :lol:



And Takahashi also has problems with consistency on his jumps, like Chan. Why don't we hear as many complaints about Takahashi's marks?

Since Takahashi hasnt fallen 4 times in either of his first 2 events, and inspite of that he still would have lost to Oda without Oda doing an extra combination at Skate America where Oda actually skated worse than Skate Canada where he lost easily to a 4 fall competition by Chan. Your eye rolling must be at your own piss poor logic. :shuffle:

The Accordion
11-21-2010, 07:18 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa a

1/ You can think all you want to that Chan does not interpret or skate to his music - but that does not make it a FACT any more than me thinking he DOES a fact. Nor will either of our opinons have an impact on results. However, judges thinking that he does - has an impact on their scores. So if you are absolutely sure that he does not interpret the music - and want to have an impact on the results - become a judge.

2/As with number one - you can complain all you want to about the falls not having enough impact on the scores but here is a little newsflash:

- There are mandatory deductions for falls and they are being applied. Don't think they are high enough? Let someone know - find a way to have a voice with the ISU but that still doesn't make it Chan's fault and therefore brings no truth to Chan is overscored theories.

-You can think all you want to that the PE and SS marks should be affected. But there is no rule or mandatory deduction for falls in these categories. Again not his fault nor unique to him. So that brings it back to being up the judges whether or not they think these categories have been negatively affected. The judges seem to believe that despite the falls that these are still high quality. So again - become a judge who can say otherwise if you want.

I happen to agree with the judges that Chan deserves high marks for these categories as any time I have seen him - other than the 3 seconds of the 150 or 270 second program he spends with his butt on the ice - his skating skills are unbelievably strong and IMO he continues to interpret the themes and music. However, as with you - my opinion has no bearing on the outcome - I guess it just results in less anger in these situations - but more dreading of reading FSU threads whenever he wins with mistakes.

ETA - and this is not a Canadian thing for me - it is a skater quality thing. There are are a few skaters who IMO often deserve to win over others who skate "cleaner" programs due to their superior skating skills. Some others who come to mind are Takahashi, Lambiel, Yuna Kim, Pairs S and S (and I don't even love their skating but I recognize their superiority), Z and S, Davis and White.

judgejudy27
11-21-2010, 07:30 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa a

1/ You can think all you want to that Chan does not interpret or skate to his music - but that does not make it a FACT anymore than me thinking he DOES is a fact. Nor will either of our opinons have an impact on results. However, judges thinking that he does - has an impact on their scores. So if you are absolutely sure that he does not interpret the music - and want to have an impact on the results - become a judge.


To even remotedly justify the judges willing to make the winner of all events even with 4 falls over top skaters who skate pretty cleanly Chan would have to be much better than everyone else in all aspects, especialy in all PC aspects. So just saying he can interpret music pretty well or perform pretty well is not nearly good enough, he has to be absolutely out of the World great at it and everything else like he supposably is/maybe is in things like skating skills and transitional complexity if you want any rational minded majority to just come forward and say "yeah it is fine if Chan wins all event with 4 falls since he is so superior".


And since Chan is clearly not head and shoulders better than everyone else in every department he does not merit victories with 4 falls, not at all. And the complains over his grossly inflated scores will continue until it stops, even if that is until the day he retires from eligiible skating or the day figure skating goes extinct as a sport (whichever comes first is this kind of farce scoring and uninspiring skating as we have seen so far this fall, especialy for the men, continues much longer).

And what a joke any of you try to bring Takahashi into the fray. Takahashi is nowhere near as overscored as Chan is so far this season anyway. If the judges applies the same thinking to Takahashi as they do with Chan he would have won the Olympic Gold easily last year with his only one fall.