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Jaana
11-20-2010, 07:22 AM
Patrick deserved his scores today. He was overscored in Canada. IMHO.

I don´t think that just Chan was overscored in Canada, the same applies to his nearest competitors. The result was right, the general scoring a bit high.

bek
11-20-2010, 03:11 PM
this problem is nothing new. different skaters through the times has won or had good results, also with the old 6.0. I remember at worlds 1999, Elena & Anton were fighting with Shen & Zhao for gold. IIRC the chinese skated clean, and Lena fell or stepped out of her double axel. Still, B&S won, because of the overall quality of their elements, the basic skating and the presentation. S&Z were getting there, but still a little rough around the edges at that time.

I had quite a few discussions with other people in the audience that night, who couldn't understand why B&S won. She fell??? The others did not! they could not get it.

I think Lena & Anton are a good example of skaters who had so many qualities to them, it made up for errors vs.others who skated clean, and for the untrained eye, better. (Olys 1998, 2002 as example. In olys 98 Anton fell in the short p, and they still placed in the top 3 above clean pairs)

Now, Chan is such a skater,and also Lepistö. Love her to death, her basic and in-betweens are divine!!

There's a HUGE difference between Elena and Anton beating able to get away with one major mistake over skaters like Shen/Zhao. And Patrick Chan being granted a 3 fall cushion.

I've got no problem with Patrick's short program win. Maybe the lead should have been a little less, but everything else was better in the short program. Overall skating should matter over one mistake. But I'm sorry once we start talking about multiple major errors, than "everything else" just isn't better. There needs to be a balance between a system that says "clean only matters" and overall quality doesn't. And a system that essentially suggests that basics/choregraphy/transitions only matter, and delivering the technical elements shouldn't matter at all. And I have a hard time believing the jumps matter in this system, when Lepisto can get away with the content she had at worlds, and Chan, Abbott, and Daisuke can get away with multiple falls. If your falling multiple times in one program, than I'm sorry that can hardly be considered a good skate. Even if your basics and edges are to die for. One half of the mark, shouldn't be set and stone before the skating even starts. And considering Chan's PCS are similar when he skates well and when he doesn't skate well, well lets just say its troubling.

shan
11-20-2010, 03:20 PM
Shouldn't this be in the Trash Can?

modern_muslimah
11-20-2010, 03:33 PM
Shouldn't this be in the Trash Can?

My thoughts exactly.

As for Chan himself, his scores make sense to me. Take Five really is a :kickass: SP and it was the best of this competition. Still, I can't deny that I wish some of the guys (Verner, Abbott) would step it up a lot so that they could have a chance of beating him without having to rely on 20 falls from him. Sometimes, you just have an attachment to other skaters who aren't the best and want them to beat the best. My mind knows Chan is probably the best mens skater right now but heart does not want him to win. Sorry. I know it's not rational but what can I say?

I think many posters who are shouting "chanflation" know he's the best but have feelings similar to mine. So instead of just saying "I don't like the guy" or "I just don't want him to win and I'm pissed my favorite is just not as good as him", we come up with rationalizations to make ourselves feel better.

Bailey_
11-20-2010, 03:40 PM
IMHO, you have to see him skate live to understand the brilliance of his edges, his ice coverage, the quality of his spins and jumps (that quad this year looks like a triple, it looks so easy and so smooth). I was a fan before, but having seen him skate in person I now believe he is the best male skater Canada - perhaps the world - has ever seen!! Nothing short of brilliant!!

burntBREAD
11-20-2010, 03:46 PM
Patrick deserved his scores today. He was overscored in Canada. IMHO.

Me, too. I think his SP was fairly scored, it was very good and he would have scored what I would have expected had he landed the 3A, mid-to-high 80s (I mean he did a gorgeous 4T-3T, spun well, did his footwork justice this time). It was very good.

Didn't watch his FS so I don't know

VIETgrlTerifa
11-20-2010, 04:47 PM
Well obviously, Patrick Chan is like the greatest skater ever. Why bother even having competitions? I think Patrick Chan should have predetermined PCS that are unattainable by any other skater just because he's so superior.

bek
11-20-2010, 05:02 PM
IMHO, you have to see him skate live to understand the brilliance of his edges, his ice coverage, the quality of his spins and jumps (that quad this year looks like a triple, it looks so easy and so smooth). I was a fan before, but having seen him skate in person I now believe he is the best male skater Canada - perhaps the world - has ever seen!! Nothing short of brilliant!!

Live Carolina Kostner supposedly has amazing flow, speed, edges etc. But Kostner has never been able to deliver when the pressure is on. A huge part of being a great champion, is being able to deliver under pressure. There are a lot of great practice skaters, basketball players, gymnasts etc. What seperates the great practice athlete, from the great champion is that the Great Champion delivers under pressure. Patrick deserves to win when he skates, well, heck when he skates decently. But he shouldn't be able to get away with falling 4 times in a competition.

smarts1
11-20-2010, 05:06 PM
Sure Patrick has some amazing qualities. His quad toe is also probably his best jump thusfar. Why I don't think he deserves his scores? He makes mistakes all the time in his programs and the rest of his jumps are nothing to brag about either.

clarie
11-20-2010, 05:17 PM
IMHO, you have to see him skate live to understand the brilliance of his edges, his ice coverage, the quality of his spins and jumps (that quad this year looks like a triple, it looks so easy and so smooth). I was a fan before, but having seen him skate in person I now believe he is the best male skater Canada - perhaps the world - has ever seen!! Nothing short of brilliant!!

I'm in total agreement with you. He's fast too on top of all that. But if some posters have a hate on for him........so be it.

briancoogaert
11-20-2010, 06:52 PM
No one deserves anything. Scores are so relative.
But for sure, Patrick Chan's skating is from another Planet !
So, I'm OK with his scores.

judgejudy27
11-20-2010, 06:57 PM
Well obviously, Patrick Chan is like the greatest skater ever. Why bother even having competitions? I think Patrick Chan should have predetermined PCS that are unattainable by any other skater just because he's so superior.

That is pretty much how the judges think as well. :lol:

RFOS
11-20-2010, 07:00 PM
Except that Takahashi has been getting higher PCS when he hasn't skated his best either.

bek
11-20-2010, 07:01 PM
Except that Takahashi has been getting higher PCS when he hasn't skated his best either.

While Daisuke has had issues, he hasn't been falling 3 times in one program. Although in general, I have seen Daisuke get huge PCS for programs filled with falls.

vodkashot
11-20-2010, 07:04 PM
IMHO, you have to see him skate live to understand the brilliance of his edges, his ice coverage, the quality of his spins and jumps (that quad this year looks like a triple, it looks so easy and so smooth). I was a fan before, but having seen him skate in person I now believe he is the best male skater Canada - perhaps the world - has ever seen!! Nothing short of brilliant!!

I have also seen Patrick Chan skate live before.

He really has very good skating skills, ice coverage, etc but even seeing him live I'm not sure how he gets those high PE and IN scores. His choreography is complex but he seems like he's just going through the motions sometimes, particularly when he flubs his jumps.

His jumps are quite good when he lands them--he could use a bit more distance and height on his jumps however--but the problem is that he often doesn't land them. If he has such good skating skills I wonder why he isn't able to hold the landing edge of his jumps....

If the best male skater in Canada--or perhaps the world--keeps winning medals with four falls per competition, I think that is more indicative of the quality of the other men in the field (or really good politicking by his federation)