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Marco
11-28-2010, 07:01 PM
Are the Ignore lists broken?
No and thanks for that :lol:

museksk8r
11-28-2010, 08:23 PM
The Mao that skated at the Olympics and Worlds was phenomenal. Other than an in form Kim that was nothing that could have stopped her . . .

That's just not true. Joannie could have easily placed ahead of Mao in Vancouver. She was only a little over 2 points from doing so and had she cleanly executed her 2Axel and tacked on a 2toe to the end of it in her LP, she would have been the Olympic silver medalist. Since November 2008, Rochette had made major improvements to her skating and began really rebuilding her reputation with the judges to the point where she was elevated to the same level as Mao, having outscored her numerous times while Asada struggled on the grand prix, 4CC, and 2009 Worlds. Kim was clearly scored above both of them whether she was clean or not, but Mao and Joannie were seen by the judges as being on pretty equal footing since that time period.

bbkenn
11-29-2010, 12:09 AM
This is nothing personal about Chan. Yes, he is know to be arrogant (in my opinion), i think fans would like all skaters to be critical of the system and themselves. Not just those who dont make it on the podium.

How can you know something to be a fact and then call it your opinion? Chan does not give himself these scores, the judges do, so all the hatefests about Chan which are clearly over the top, are ridiculous.

Why can't we focus on the skaters' skating, and move away from personal attacks on skaters' characters, as though they are responsible for the judges marks.

I wish the judges would score more accurately so that the skaters would know what and where they need to improve for the next competition. IMO, skaters usually know when they've been gifted or shafted, and prepare accordingly, and I don't believe Patrick is any different than any others who've received gifted scores in the past.

kosjenka
11-29-2010, 12:45 AM
How can you know something to be a fact and then call it your opinion? Chan does not give himself these scores, the judges do, so all the hatefests about Chan which are clearly over the top, are ridiculous.


I used the wrong expression.
I believe Chan often acts in an arrogant way (bleh - this sounds even worse) and this is something many others have commented here and other boards and blogs.

As far as the rest of your comment about Chan, well I wrote it myself before:


Chan does not give himself the marks.
So stop being personal.

I think most of this negativity in the fandom about judging on Chan's winning with 3 falls is connected with Chan's "public relations" so to say.
Still - the judges and the system are those to be quwstoined about marks.

Marco
11-29-2010, 03:00 AM
I think most of this negativity in the fandom about judging on Chan's winning with 3 falls is connected with Chan's "public relations" so to say.
Still - the judges and the system are those to be quwstoined about marks.

How boring would skating be if everyone was just goodie two shoes. I love Michelle Kwan but I also love Witt's death-staring, Kerrigan's, Stojko's and Browning's bitter comments at Lillehammer, Slutskaya whining, Butyrskaya bitching, Plushenko and Yagudin, Cohen being a snob and not training, Arakawa and Suguri secretly hating each other, Zhang's temper, Plushenko and Joubert being unsportsmanlike and trashing people who beat them, Wagner's instantly changed reactions, Kim's "dark side', Nagasu's wideness, all the crazy skate-moms etc. That's great entertainment and what's making the sport interesting on the side. Just on the side though. Petty drama is not going to draw into watching skaters I don't like or I don't find interesting. Neither will good academics :shuffle:

Many things Chan has said these past years have suggested that he is a huge snob. But damn it, he is a great skater and that's what really matters. His bitch slaps with Joubert is great fun, especially since he has been beating Joubert at all the big comps since 2009 Worlds and is now showing him up with a quad (albeit an unreliable one).

orbitz
11-29-2010, 03:45 AM
Many things Chan has said these past years have suggested that he is a huge snob. But damn it, he is a great skater and that's what really matters.

That's almost like saying it didn't matter that Bowman abused drugs and alcohol off ice as long as he was able to pull off good performances at major competitions. If Chan wants to have sponsors, fans, endorse products, etc., then he better monitor what he does off the ice as well as what he does on the ice.

bek
11-29-2010, 04:23 AM
That's almost like saying it didn't matter that Bowman abused drugs and alcohol off ice as long as he was able to pull off good performances at major competitions. If Chan wants to have sponsors, fans, endorse products, etc., then he better monitor what he does off the ice as well as what he does on the ice.

You really can't compare Patrick's trash talking to Bowman abusing drugs/alcohol. I'm actually starting to find Patrick's trash talking funny. Its fun to have someone to roll my yes at. When you think about it he's kind of the Sasha of men's skating. Always silver in the end. :lol: Say what you will about Brian Joubert, Plushenko, Yagudin, Kulik, and Daisuke, skaters Patrick has seen fit to trash talk. They are all World Champions or Olympic Champions Patricks' not. :lol:

This being said I do like that he's bringing in the quad this year.





I think most of this negativity in the fandom about judging on Chan's winning with 3 falls is connected with Chan's "public relations" so to say.
Still - the judges and the system are those to be quwstoined about marks.

Four falls, he won with four falls. But to be frank, I'd hope fans aren't angry just because someone they don't like won with four falls. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't like any skater winning with four falls. I frankly don't care who the skater is.

PUNKPRINCESS
11-29-2010, 05:02 AM
How boring would skating be if everyone was just goodie two shoes. I love Michelle Kwan but I also love Witt's death-staring, Kerrigan's, Stojko's and Browning's bitter comments at Lillehammer, Slutskaya whining, Butyrskaya bitching, Plushenko and Yagudin, Cohen being a snob and not training, Arakawa and Suguri secretly hating each other, Zhang's temper, Plushenko and Joubert being unsportsmanlike and trashing people who beat them, Wagner's instantly changed reactions, Kim's "dark side', Nagasu's wideness, all the crazy skate-moms etc. That's great entertainment and what's making the sport interesting on the side. Just on the side though. Petty drama is not going to draw into watching skaters I don't like or I don't find interesting. Neither will good academics :shuffle:

Many things Chan has said these past years have suggested that he is a huge snob. But damn it, he is a great skater and that's what really matters. His bitch slaps with Joubert is great fun, especially since he has been beating Joubert at all the big comps since 2009 Worlds and is now showing him up with a quad (albeit an unreliable one).
:cheer: Totally agree! It's all in good fun, and I love every minute of it. ;)


Maybe I'm alone, but I'm really tired of all the whining and snarking about Patrick Chan's scores...I think all the folks who are whining about "chanflation" need to name a skater who is better than this. Or shut up. ;)

And I'm not even Canadian. :shuffle:
Can you answer me this: Are you of Chinese descent?

I notice that most people (if not all?) who generally feel his scores are justified are typically Chinese, Canadian, or both (although Chan has his Chinese and Canadian detractors too, of course.)

Just saying. I have nothing in particular against Chan and I kinda like him and find his comments amusing, and his dedication and skills commendable, but even I have a hard time making sense of his scores. I am not saying that the judges are simply abusing the judging system, because it may be a problem in the current judging system itself...but some things just seem a little "off" to me.

In all fairness and no hate, I still find Chan somewhat overscored. He is not (yet) at the same level as Takahashi, Yagudin, or Plushenko, as another poster suggested.

ks1227
11-29-2010, 05:04 AM
Many things Chan has said these past years have suggested that he is a huge snob. But damn it, he is a great skater and that's what really matters. His bitch slaps with Joubert is great fun, especially since he has been beating Joubert at all the big comps since 2009 Worlds and is now showing him up with a quad (albeit an unreliable one).


I'm actually starting to find Patrick's trash talking funny. Its fun to have someone to roll my yes at. When you think about it he's kind of the Sasha of men's skating. Always silver in the end. :lol:
I love to hear Chan talk some smack. Anyone with those skating skills gets a pass with a little snobbery as far as I'm concerned. :P It wouldn't even be noticed in any other sport.

And actually, I find it interesting that a lot of fans get bent out of shape about a few media-prompted comments made by an Asian-Canadian male skater that probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow if said by a "white" Russian, French or American male skater. There, I said it. :shuffle:

All of that being said ... I'm looking forward to the day when Chan finally gets his butt kicked by Kozuka, who is just as good a figure skater without any of the attitude and with fewer falls. :P But meanwhile, I still haven't heard anyone name a skater who was beaten by Chan this season who actually deserved a higher placement. I'm not seeing many references to the protocols either.

bek
11-29-2010, 06:33 AM
And actually, I find it interesting that a lot of fans get bent out of shape about a few media-prompted comments made by an Asian-Canadian skater that probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow if said by a "white" Russian, French or American skater. There, I said it.



I don't think that's fair to say. What I didn't like about Patrick's comments was he got personal. For example criticizing Joubert for being fake by talking in public about Buttle while, being nice in private, what exactly was Patrick doing. In fact Joubert even commented on how surprised he was by Chan's comments because Chan was a "nice guy". Its one thing to trash talk skating but another thing to get into things like "fake"

Second, normally you kind of expect people who talk to "put up" and Patrick really hasn't put up. He may have beaten Joubert, but well he still hasn't won worlds nor has he gotten an Olympic medal. For me the second things is the main thing.

Russian gymnast Aliya Mustafina, reportedly walked into Worlds this year, and acted like she had already won. Although Aliya refrained from talking bad about competitors in the media (just after prelims called out her team as a whole asking them to perform better). But Aliya also put her money where her attitude was. Girlie carried her Team to victory, dominated the All Around, made all event finals, and won 3 event medals. It was the most dominating performance by a woman in 13 years...

When Patrick criticizes Daisuke Takahashi for not doing the quad in the short, and then turns around and falls four times at Skate Canada (including the quad in the short). He just makes himself look like (I'll say it an idiot). When he says Plushenko is afraid of him, when Plushenko accomplished way more at Patrick's age than Patrick's accomplished, and while in the end Plushenko pretty much delivered at the Olympics and Patrick didn't well.. The whole thing is quite funny.

I guess I'm saying IF you are going to be trash talking you better follow it up with good performances on your part. But for someone who wins the way Patrick wins (Patrick makes tons of errors a LOT) to trash talk it is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. If I'm Patrick's competitors I want him to trash talk.

alilou
11-29-2010, 08:34 AM
I wish Ozzie Colson was still alive. I bet he'd give Patrick a good talking to about only speaking about your competitors with respect, no matter what you may think in private. It bothers me about Patrick. I do think he is one of the most extraordinary talents to ever come along in skating, and yes I think he deserves all his scores, falls or not, but karma can be a bitch, and until he kind of settles a little inside himself, and learns a little humility, it may be that he never finds the right "energetic" to live up to his potential. And that would be a huge shame, for him, and for all FS fans.

(But I do have to say that things always get mis-reported. I don't think he criticized Takahashi for not having a quad in his short. I think he was just surprised, and said so when he was asked about it).

gkelly
11-29-2010, 01:24 PM
I notice that most people (if not all?) who generally feel his scores are justified are typically Chinese, Canadian, or both (although Chan has his Chinese and Canadian detractors too, of course.)

Raises hand. Neither Canadian nor Chinese.

I don't read many interviews and I don't care one way or another about the personality of the skater esp. off ice. I do admire the guy's skating.

I thought Chan's scores at Skate Canada were mostly within range of what I thought he deserved. Some a little on the high side, but certainly within range of what he deserves for a better skate. It's not as though he was falling apart all through the program, only for a few seconds surrounding each fall.

Seriously, if the guy normally deserves 9s and has a bad day, low 8s or high 7s can certainly be appropriate . . . even if no one else in the event deserves higher than that on a good day.

Interpretation is the most subjective component. Some people find that to be Chan's weakest area in general compared to their favorites. Fine. But how does he fulfill the bullet points for that component, compared to the 1-10 scale as applied to all skaters in the world, not just those on TV? Maybe IN should be his lowest component, but by how much? And if fans' tastes vary, might judges' tastes vary as well?

ks1227
11-29-2010, 01:52 PM
Can you answer me this: Are you of Chinese descent?

I notice that most people (if not all?) who generally feel his scores are justified are typically Chinese, Canadian, or both (although Chan has his Chinese and Canadian detractors too, of course.)
No, I'm not Chinese or Canadian. Anglo U.S. here.



Interpretation is the most subjective component. Some people find that to be Chan's weakest area in general compared to their favorites. Fine. But how does he fulfill the bullet points for that component, compared to the 1-10 scale as applied to all skaters in the world, not just those on TV? Maybe IN should be his lowest component, but by how much? And if fans' tastes vary, might judges' tastes vary as well?
Yes, I guess this and perhaps the PE score is where folks are expecting to see a lower number. Otherwise it's hard to look at the protocols and see what everyone is so upset about. The TE marks all add up, and most of the PCS make sense as well.

wonderlen
11-29-2010, 04:04 PM
But to be frank, I'd hope fans aren't angry just because someone they don't like won with four falls. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't like any skater winning with four falls. I frankly don't care who the skater is.

LOL Agree. If Chan's can win with 4 falls, Takahiko should have cracked 175+ mark and handed the World Title with his performance at TEB. :lol:

Copper
11-29-2010, 11:04 PM
:
Can you answer me this: Are you of Chinese descent?

I notice that most people (if not all?) who generally feel his scores are justified are typically Chinese, Canadian, or both (although Chan has his Chinese and Canadian detractors too, of course.)


I am neither Chinese nor Canadian. I'm not a fan of Pat but I too think his scores can be justified.