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View Full Version : Patrick Chan deserves his scores



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judgejudy27
11-25-2010, 07:50 AM
Well Abbott is hardly the favorite Patrick is, he's gotten some very high scores for programs with multiple falls. I remember at Worlds in the long when he was scored very close to an almost clean Adam Rippon. Now part of it was that Abbott did have some hard jumps done with his falls, but I was like meh.


Abbott only finished 5th at a depleted Worlds (basically the same field as now minus any improvers or up and comers as all the retiring Olympians were out) with 2 falls over the 2 programs. That wasnt a big deal. Abbott skated a clean short and was placed only 6th behind Kozuka and Brezina, then moved up to 5th with 2 falls after Kozuka melted down. He is not a judges favorite at all outside of U.S Nationals.

Rippon vs Abbott has more to do with Rippon then it has to do with Abbott. Sadly the international judges have no respect for Rippon yet anyway, the Japan Open was a mirage of sorts. They might not even place him in the top 10 at Worlds if everyone skates well.

bek
11-25-2010, 08:04 AM
Answer to my question about Abbott is Abbott did get higher choregraphy/transition scores but barely.

Vash01
11-25-2010, 08:59 AM
I'm sorry but execution has to matter just as much as difficulty. As for the other guys can't do the difficult/transitions/choregraphy. One could suggest that maybe they are actually trying to go with programs they can execute.

When Patrick/Abbott execute their programs well-yes they deserve to win. But the idea of rewarding them for having "complicated programs" that are so difficulty they are falling multiple times is wrong IMO. You should only get rewarded for things you actually DO in competition.

And for the record, when I say executing your program well I'm not saying the way people argued in Salt Lake that "one stumble" or one fall means-said skater should lose. I'm saying that 3 falls in one program-should result in a significantly bad score. And it doesn't matter who the skater is whether it be Yu-na Kim, Patrick Chan, Daisuke Takahashi, Lambiel etc.

I strongly suspect if Patrick was told that he'd be hit hard for all of his falls mess ups, that Patrick would respond by going for programs that he could actually execute at a "reasonable level". He'd probably fall less, the judges could justifiably reward the guy for his amazing skating, and everyone would be happier.

I agree completely. Multiple falls in a program indicate that the skater cannot execute that level of difficulty. In that case the skater should be penalized for those mistakes and not be forgiven just because he had more difficulty built into the choreography. Unless the judges start using the rules correctly, skaters like Chan will not have the motivation to either improve consistency or reduce the difficulty. Particularly when one skater is marked differently from others (ex: Chan vs. Abbott who rarely gets the same benefit of doubt despite his difficult choreography), it is unhealthy for a sport.

senorita
11-25-2010, 09:25 AM
Just a thinking, if I were Chan I would loose the content now a lot to afford a clean skate, make less choreo and transitions for the single reason that once he has reached a certain point in pcs, judges wont mark him lower anymore in any area because he will do 10 transitions less.He has established the pcs marks and his edge work, now he can do it a little easier.

Dragonlady
11-25-2010, 03:05 PM
But neither Patrick or Abbott has shown they can actually execute their programs consistently. I watch Abbott's programs and the way he moves his body and I love it, and I DO enjoy watching Patrick, when he's skating well. But I'm sorry I don't enjoy watching either of them fall multiple times in their programs either.

Patrick was injured and/or recovering from injury through all of last season. So far, we are less than two months into this season and Patrick has struggled to execute his programs, but for programs this difficult, it's not that surprising that he would have problems in the early season, especially trying to integrate the quad into his repertoire. Admittedly, four fall per competition is more than messy, but we're still in November and Worlds is four months away.

It took Patrick two full seasons to do a clean Four Seasons and this program is much more difficult. I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point because ultimately, I think he will get his act together and deliver a spectacular performance.

Patrick has always skated better in the latter part of the season than earlier. This fall has just been somewhat more difficult for him, but I think he's learned a lot from it.

Time will tell.

bek
11-25-2010, 04:36 PM
Patrick was injured and/or recovering from injury through all of last season. So far, we are less than two months into this season and Patrick has struggled to execute his programs, but for programs this difficult, it's not that surprising that he would have problems in the early season, especially trying to integrate the quad into his repertoire. Admittedly, four fall per competition is more than messy, but we're still in November and Worlds is four months away.

It took Patrick two full seasons to do a clean Four Seasons and this program is much more difficult. I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point because ultimately, I think he will get his act together and deliver a spectacular performance.

Patrick has always skated better in the latter part of the season than earlier. This fall has just been somewhat more difficult for him, but I think he's learned a lot from it.

Time will tell.

Patrick is doing a lot more difficult jumps than what he did in Four Seasons. Didn't he only do one triple axel when he did that program clean? (I kind of rest my case there)The point is once again Patrick currently hasn't shown he can execute his complicated programs consistently well.. There shouldn't be a wait and see on scores. A program is either currently executed well or its not executed well. As I said before Patrick should get high scores when he skates well, but not when he's falling multiple times. And I don't recall Patrick being that much better last year at the end of the year either. His Worlds free skate was messy. (The fact that he has to keep these skates and it takes him so long to skate the programs well sort of illustrates what I'm saying here)

purple skates
11-25-2010, 04:44 PM
If that is true then why don't more skaters DO more one-foot skating in their competitive programs?

Probably because it is more physically tiring than two-footed footwork. I have seen several skaters, including ladies, doing one-foot footwork this year, though, not just Chan.

VIETgrlTerifa
11-25-2010, 04:52 PM
I'm not convinced that Chan can land his jumps even with a simple routine. Smart of him to over-choreograph his routines to get guaranteed high scores when he's never going to be consistent. He may have a great performance now and then, but he'll average 2-5 falls per competition in his career.

Dragonlady
11-25-2010, 04:52 PM
There are bonus points this season for doing one-foot footwork which covers at least half the length of the arena, which is why everyone is attempting it this year.

Patrick's PCS scores hit the 8+ range when he started demonstrating command of the ice which is to say, speed, flow and attack. Joubert has it (sometimes), as does Takahashi. Abbott doesn't have it. Not even close, which is why he has to be perfect to pull off high scores.

Patrick scored 166 points for his LP at Skate Canada where he fell once on his triple axel, and 145 for his CoR skate with 3 falls, so it is false to say he isn't punished for his mistakes.

VIETgrlTerifa
11-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Abbott will definitely have it if he skates the way he did at Nationals 2010, but I've given up on the idea that Abbott will ever be consistent. Of course I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Allen
11-25-2010, 05:00 PM
Abbott will definitely have it if he skates the way he did at Nationals 2010, but I've given up on the idea that Abbott will ever be consistent. Of course I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I'd be so happy if Jeremy could gain consistency. It's a shame that it seems that most (not all) of the consistent skaters aren't as exciting as some of the really inconsistent ones.

Rafter
11-25-2010, 05:09 PM
Probably because it is more physically tiring than two-footed footwork. I have seen several skaters, including ladies, doing one-foot footwork this year, though, not just Chan.

But we are talking about one-foot skating throughout the entire program, not just the required footwork sequences. Most skaters now are attempting to do footwork on one-foot for some of the required sequences to up the level. What we are talking about is the transitional moves, MITF, skating IN BETWEEN the elements that are done on one foot by Chan. Other skaters do not do this the same, opting for the easier two-foot skating/gliding around.

Get it?

purple skates
11-25-2010, 05:13 PM
Maybe YOU were, I was talking about footwork. No need to be a bint about it. :rolleyes:

David21
11-25-2010, 05:22 PM
If you read all of the post about Chan there is one thing that everyone agree's on (Chan's skating skills are the best in the world). Now you add his Quad combo (best jump in the world) into the equation. That being said justifies his scoring.

At the end of the day Chan is the best skater in the world and the judges know it!


:scream:

Rafter
11-25-2010, 05:28 PM
Maybe YOU were, I was talking about footwork. No need to be a bint about it. :rolleyes:

Except that your original post in response to mine was misunderstood. You were pointing out to me that one-foot footwork isn't that difficult (hence implying that what Chan is doing isn't that difficult) because a lot of skaters are doing one-foot footwork, whereas I was talking about Chan's one-foot *skating*.

Whatever. :rolleyes: