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wonderlen
11-16-2010, 09:14 PM
No, I don't think you're quite getting it. She would be doing the 3Lz twice, the 3Lo twice and the 3T twice, which is not allowed. She can't repeat more than two triple jumps, and the repeated triples must include at least one in combination. Under your proposed jump layout, her 3T would receive no credit.

Actually under the proposed layout (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo) all repeat jump are done with combination. The first 3Lutz in combination with 3Loop, and solo lutz later. Same goes for 3Loop, first in back end of Lutz combo and later as solo jump. And 3Toe in combination with 2A and solo jump later.

Doesn't mater what combination you did, you can do 3T+3T or 3T+2T or 3T+1T or 2A+3T and all are count as in combination. You misread the rule, under the rule you cannot repeat triple jumps more than TWICE. Its the third jump that will get no credit. Even if you fail to do the second jump in combination, you still get partial credit, 80% of the original value. -20% penalty for failing to do in combination.

Best example will be Irina Slutskya 2005 world LP. She did three triple loop in the program and the third jump got zero credit.

wonderlen
11-16-2010, 09:25 PM
It always goes

1. Music starts
2. Slight interpretation/posing for a few seconds
3. Immediate crossovers towards the judges and then glides away into the back left corner (from the judges' perspective)
4. Lutz-loop combo

:lol:

LOL I for one don't have a problem with that. After all, she is setting up big triple+triple combo and what ever works for her. Isn't Kim do the same thing, music start, smile and look at the judges, do some primsy arm moves and flip-toe combo?? I also notice Kim always do her Flip-toe in right corner of the rink. Majority of all the skaters always open their program in similar way. Maybe its a comfort zone to start of the program?? who knows.

oleada
11-16-2010, 10:58 PM
Actually under the proposed layout (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo) all repeat jump are done with combination. The first 3Lutz in combination with 3Loop, and solo lutz later. Same goes for 3Loop, first in back end of Lutz combo and later as solo jump. And 3Toe in combination with 2A and solo jump later.

Doesn't mater what combination you did, you can do 3T+3T or 3T+2T or 3T+1T or 2A+3T and all are count as in combination. You misread the rule, under the rule you cannot repeat triple jumps more than TWICE. Its the third jump that will get no credit. Even if you fail to do the second jump in combination, you still get partial credit, 80% of the original value. -20% penalty for failing to do in combination.

Best example will be Irina Slutskya 2005 world LP. She did three triple loop in the program and the third jump got zero credit.

:wall:

No. This is not correct. You cannot repeat more than two triple jumps. You can repeat two (and no more than two) triple jumps, and at least one must be in combination.

From the ISU technical panel handbook for single skating:


Of all the triple and quadruple jumps only two (2) can be repeated and these
repetitions must be in either a jump-combination or in a jump sequence.

Source (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-197593-214816-125742-0-file,00.pdf)

It doesn't matter if all three repeated jumps are in combination, when she's not allowed to repeat a third triple in the first place.

pinky166
11-16-2010, 11:21 PM
Does anyone know if she can do a triple lutz-triple toe?

She always seems to do combinations with loop jumps on the back end, except for if the first jump is a double axel. It would appear she has a very nice 3t but I guess the loop is a more secure jump for her in combinations? You would think a 3lz-3t would be significantly easier to execute and rotate for most skaters...

ks777
11-17-2010, 02:55 AM
Miki's least favorite jump is a toe-loop jump, so I read in an interview a long time ago. I think she could do a 3lutz/3toe if she wants to. She used to do a 3toe/3toe and a 3lutz/3loop in a program.

VIETgrlTerifa
11-17-2010, 06:40 PM
Actually under the proposed layout (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo) all repeat jump are done with combination. The first 3Lutz in combination with 3Loop, and solo lutz later. Same goes for 3Loop, first in back end of Lutz combo and later as solo jump. And 3Toe in combination with 2A and solo jump later.

Doesn't mater what combination you did, you can do 3T+3T or 3T+2T or 3T+1T or 2A+3T and all are count as in combination. You misread the rule, under the rule you cannot repeat triple jumps more than TWICE. Its the third jump that will get no credit. Even if you fail to do the second jump in combination, you still get partial credit, 80% of the original value. -20% penalty for failing to do in combination.

Best example will be Irina Slutskya 2005 world LP. She did three triple loop in the program and the third jump got zero credit.

Oleada is right. Under your layout, she's repeating three different types of Triple jumps. A skater cannot do that.

In order to be allowed to repeat a Triple Jump, one of the attempts must be in combination. However, just because you do three different triples in combination doesn't mean a skater is allowed to repeat all three triples. He/she is only limited to repeating two of the three triples they put in combination.

This Zayak rule has been effect for more than twenty years now and hasn't changed, even with the advent of the COP.

wonderlen
11-17-2010, 06:41 PM
:wall:

No. This is not correct. You cannot repeat more than two triple jumps. You can repeat two (and no more than two) triple jumps, and at least one must be in combination.

From the ISU technical panel handbook for single skating:



Source (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-197593-214816-125742-0-file,00.pdf)

It doesn't matter if all three repeated jumps are in combination, when she's not allowed to repeat a third triple in the first place.

Ohhh ic. thanks!!

VIETgrlTerifa
11-17-2010, 06:43 PM
(3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo)

Where exactly is the THIRD triple jump of the same kind??? :rolleyes:

You have Miki repeating the Triple Lutz, Triple Toe, and Triple Loop.

She can only repeat two of those jumps. No need to roll your eyes since Oleada was only stating the rules as they have existed in the past 20+ years.

falling_dance
11-17-2010, 06:46 PM
nm (I see that oleada and VIETgrlterifa have explained this very well already.)

oleada
11-17-2010, 06:52 PM
(3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo)

Where exactly is the THIRD triple jump of the same kind??? :rolleyes:

As falling_dance, VIETgrlTerifa, and I have explained, you have Miki repeating the 3Lz, 3T and 3Lo. That's three (count them. three. 1, 2, 3) different triples she would be repeating. As referenced in the ISU technical handbook, this is not permitted.