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View Full Version : Can Hanyu and Murakami make the world team this year & if so, who would they replace?



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Ziggy
11-01-2010, 09:53 PM
Well so we now know that Oda will most likely make the team. He seems to be in great shape.


Don't downgrades need to have negative GOE now (unlike in the past season when judges were not told whether a jump was downgraded or not)? So in effect, a cheated salchow might not completely be beneficial.

Assuming she rotates more than 3.5, count this:

0.7 x 4S base value - 3 (-4 if she falls)


After all the hype about her I was very disappointed when I saw Suzuki last season. I think she is good but nothing really special. I certainly don't see her as being anywhere near certain to make the world team, and personally I'd like to see someone else make it.

She can skate to the music, which is very special as far as Ladies are concerned. :P


Why are you even entertaining such gloomy thoughts? :drama:

Because at current stage, it's very likely to happen.

miki88
11-01-2010, 09:59 PM
Because at current stage, it's very likely to happen.

Let's just wait and see. I do remember similar speculation taking place last season.

judgejudy27
11-02-2010, 08:30 PM
Well so we now know that Oda will most likely make the team. He seems to be in great shape.

Just because he had one decent competition where he still lost to a 4 fall Patrick Chan? Oda is always in great shape physically, mentally is another matter. He actually usually looks better than he did at Skate Canada at this point in the season and goes down from here.

NMURA
11-02-2010, 08:55 PM
Just because he had one decent competition where he still lost to a 4 fall Patrick Chan? Oda is always in great shape physically, mentally is another matter. He actually usually looks better than he did at Skate Canada at this point in the season and goes down from here.

Kozuka surely loses to 5 falls PChan. Since last season, Oda has scored higher than Kozuka's Seasons Best at every competition except one (Torino worlds).

judgejudy27
11-02-2010, 10:32 PM
Kozuka surely loses to 5 falls PChan. Since last season, Oda has scored higher than Kozuka's Seasons Best at every competition except one (Torino worlds).

If past history is any indication Oda is losing to 4 fall Chan while skating alot better than he will in January since his skating is always better in October than in January.

pinky166
11-02-2010, 10:53 PM
I actually think Kozuka is better than Oda, at least in terms of presentation, performance, PCS. Oda is a great jumper but he's so small and almost shy on the ice that his performances never really draw me in. Chaplin worked pretty well for him but was also a bit juniorish, I know it must be hard when one is so small and looks so young, but this more mature FS Oda has this season just seems pretty boring. I do like his SP though.

NMURA
11-02-2010, 11:32 PM
If past history is any indication Oda is losing to 4 fall Chan while skating alot better than he will in January since his skating is always better in October than in January.

Wait, it was HomeCooking Skate Chanada. Oda will beat 4 falls Chan in Tokyo. And if past history is any indication, Chan ALWAYS skates poorly in Asia. He can be easily put off world podium if he skates like Skate Chanada.

Ziggy
11-02-2010, 11:34 PM
I actually think Kozuka is better than Oda, at least in terms of presentation, performance, PCS. Oda is a great jumper but he's so small and almost shy on the ice that his performances never really draw me in. Chaplin worked pretty well for him but was also a bit juniorish, I know it must be hard when one is so small and looks so young, but this more mature FS Oda has this season just seems pretty boring. I do like his SP though.

I agree.

I think Kozuka is generally very undermarked on the PCS. Probably because he's not outgoing and expressive.

But his basics are good and he usually does skate to the music.

Do people really need to do hip thrusts in order to get recognised? :P

As for losing to 4 falls Chan, well most currently competing skaters would.

Takahashi is the only skater at present who gets PCS as high as Chan from the judges, falls or not.

Marco
11-03-2010, 03:55 AM
Kozuka skates just as fast as Oda but the quality and complexity of his skating is so much superior.

Kozuka needs to get rid of the labelling as Japan's #3, if he wants to get high PCS (which he deserves). To me, the only reasons Oda is ahead of Kozuka on the pecking order are that (1) he became a senior first and immediately came close to medalling at Worlds and winning GPs; (2) he was more consistent and flashy [jumps, choreography].

It's almost the same way Lysacek was pecked ahead of Abbott and how Chan beat Rippon in Skate Chanada.

judgejudy27
11-03-2010, 04:47 AM
As for losing to 4 falls Chan, well most currently competing skaters would.

If so that is a sad reflection on either the current state of mens field or the quality of judging, or perhaps both (and for the record I thought Chan's win at this years Skate Canada was a huge farce).

Chan was a distant 5th at the Olympics in Canada with less than 3 falls worth of mistakes over the 2 programs but of course Plushenko, Lysacek, Lambiel, and Weir were all there, in addition to all the current remaining skaters.

Marco
11-03-2010, 05:45 AM
If so that is a sad reflection on either the current state of mens field or the quality of judging, or perhaps both (and for the record I thought Chan's win at this years Skate Canada was a huge farce).


If someone can fall twice and still win Olympic silver, I don't think falling 4 times and winning an easy season GP without much real competition is anything too worrying. And Chan is 10 tens the skater Cohen was.

I thnk Rippon was undermarked at Skate Chanada, but I would be hard pressed to place Chan lower than second (or below Oda) anyway.

judgejudy27
11-03-2010, 06:31 AM
The 2006 womens figure skating event was shockingly appaling even without considering it was missing 3 of the best skaters in the World at the time, and Cohen was lucky her 2nd actual fall wasnt deemed as a fall considering she barely won silver as it was.

It is interesting you seemed like a fan of Oda when he was coming up, I remember you posting about him excitedly back in fall of 2006 but you seem to have gone cold on him over the years (as alot of people have).

The Skate Canada mens field might seem weak but then again it begs the question who are the big guns outside of Takahashi and Chan now anyway. Joubert if he isnt really past his prime now I guess, and not sure who else at the moment. There isnt even another former World medalist in the field left.

Marco
11-03-2010, 10:14 AM
It is interesting you seemed like a fan of Oda when he was coming up, I remember you posting about him excitedly back in fall of 2006 but you seem to have gone cold on him over the years (as alot of people have).


I like Oda as a technical skater but he has no advancement in artistic ability and his programs and expressions have sucked since 2007. Zatoichi was such a great program and it was his last great program.


The Skate Canada mens field might seem weak but then again it begs the question who are the big guns outside of Takahashi and Chan now anyway. Joubert if he isnt really past his prime now I guess, and not sure who else at the moment. There isnt even another former World medalist in the field left.

Chan is the highest placed skater at Olympics and Worlds to have competed at Skate Chanada and may I say, the best. To me he and Oda are both technical skaters with poor artistry. But at least Chan shows off his great skating while skating to incredibly complex programs and deserved his PCS advantage over Oda.

Having said that, so long as Oda lands the quad, I am sure he will stay in medal contention at Worlds this season. Same for Joubert and Verner. I also really hope Abbott can contend but to even be considered he needs to ahve a consistent season.


The 2006 womens figure skating event was shockingly appaling even without considering it was missing 3 of the best skaters in the World at the time, and Cohen was lucky her 2nd actual fall wasnt deemed as a fall considering she barely won silver as it was.

Chan beating Rippon and Oda is like Cohen beating Suguri and Slutskaya.

pinky166
11-03-2010, 12:03 PM
As for losing to 4 falls Chan, well most currently competing skaters would.

Takahashi is the only skater at present who gets PCS as high as Chan from the judges, falls or not.

And Lysacek, although I have no idea how that happened. He went from getting Oda PCS to Takahashi/Chan PCS over the course of a few competitions. If only Rippon could manage to do the same.

judgejudy27
11-03-2010, 11:07 PM
Lysacek is one of the greatest and most consistent skaters of the last decade. It is no surprise he got some of the highest PCS reflecting his superiority.