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bardtoob
10-24-2010, 06:38 PM
Katarina Witt- 1987 Worlds- Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjvAu2TnxMo)

Carolina Kostner- 2010 NHK Trophy- Free Skate [Link Omitted]

orientalplane
10-24-2010, 07:35 PM
It's rather an unbalanced question. NHK is a much smaller competition than Worlds, so it's no great surprise that it doesn't require the same technical content to win it. Everyone knows that Kostner wouldn't win Worlds 2011 with that performance. In addition, she's capable of doing the flip and lutz, but can't attempt them at the moment because of injury.

bardtoob
10-24-2010, 07:50 PM
^ Witt had to perform compulsory figures at 1987 Worlds, so she could not focus exclusively on technical content, but she was capable of at least 3F.

I supposed I could create a poll comparing NHK to NHK since fall of 1990, when compulsories were discontinued from competition, in general, although compulsories had not been part of NHK prior to that. Of course, then Kostner would be matched up with Midori and Tonya :2faced:

orientalplane
10-24-2010, 08:18 PM
^ Witt had to perform compulsory figures at 1987 Worlds, so she could not focus exclusively on technical content, but she was capable of at least 3F.


Slight drift, but isn't it the case that Katarina landed the 3F only once at Worlds? (I'm not sure; I wasn't watching in those days.) And she certainly didn't ever land the lutz, or even try it.

bardtoob
10-24-2010, 08:38 PM
Yeah, Witt introduced 3F to World competition then never did it again at Worlds, but Carolina never did compulsory figures either. I think Witt was practicing 3Lz to match Beillmann, but abandoned it because it was not necessary.

Jenna
10-24-2010, 08:54 PM
It's no secret that this wasn't the best ladies competition ever skated. NHK was the first event of the season and Worlds is the last. I don't think it's really useful to compare these two competitions. Carolina is probably trying to ease back into the jumps, after all she is injured. She definitely wouldn't win worlds with that skate.

On another note, Rachael Flatt had the most technical content here, yes, more than Witt in '87.

Sedge
10-24-2010, 08:56 PM
Yeah, Witt introduced 3F to World competition then never did it again at Worlds, but Carolina never did compulsory figures either. I think Witt was practicing 3Lz to match Beillmann, but abandoned it because it was not necessary.

I think the jump she pulled out of her pocket at Worlds was the 3Loop in 1987.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjvAu2TnxMo

I am not sure I ever saw her do a 3F..most of her competitions were 3T and 3S only, IIRC.
She did know how to sell those 2 jumps though...no doubt about it.

orbitz
10-24-2010, 09:06 PM
The only time I saw Witt attempted a 3flip on TV was at 83 Europeans, and it was two-footed. That competition was aired on CBS, and it was the first and last time Janet Lynn was hired as a TV commentator, btw; Janet was horrible.

If Witt had been able to do 4 different triples back in those days then she would've been unstoppable.

bardtoob
10-24-2010, 09:10 PM
I think the jump she pulled out of her pocket at Worlds was the 3Loop in 1987.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjvAu2TnxMo

I am not sure I ever saw her do a 3F..most of her competitions were 3T and 3S only, IIRC.
She did know how to sell those 2 jumps though...no doubt about it.

Here is pre-Zayak Rule Katarina Witt, complete with 2Lz-3T, 3F, 3T, and Split Flip-3T: WITT K. 1981 LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hLuhzIyma0)

jiggs
10-24-2010, 09:16 PM
I am really getting sick of these threads. It's almost as if they're created to put Carolina in a bad light.

All those ladies were not skating to their potential, some of them injured including Carolina. All of them are capable of doing so much more. It's the beginning of the season so give them a break.

bardtoob
10-24-2010, 09:21 PM
I am really getting sick of these threads. It's almost as if they're created to put Carolina in a bad light.

Then don't go into the Trash Can. There is a reason this is in the Trash Can.

"The Trash Can
Abandon hope all ye who enter here! Um, trolls, polls and crap." :2faced:

Of course, being in the Trash Can does not change that Carolina wuzzgifted with a gold medal and prize money, accordingly, for performing technical content of the 80s, oldies but goodies :rolleyes:

Sedge
10-24-2010, 09:29 PM
Thanks barbtoob..I had no idea she had ever done a 3F..looks like it went missing in action after that season..she was back to 2F at Worlds by 1983 and 84.

Jenna
10-24-2010, 11:59 PM
Then don't go into the Trash Can. There is a reason this is in the Trash Can.

"The Trash Can
Abandon hope all ye who enter here! Um, trolls, polls and crap." :2faced:

Of course, being in the Trash Can does not change that Carolina wuzzgifted with a gold medal and prize money, accordingly, for performing technical content of the 80s, oldies but goodies :rolleyes:

How on earth was she gifted? Sure, Rachael Flatt out jumped her...but this is not 6.0 any longer. Carolina was clearly stronger in all other areas. To me, it wasn't even close.

I don't really understand a compelling reason for this thread..why are we comparing Carolina at NHK to Katarina in a WC 23 years ago? Carolina is injured and could not perform to the best of her ability. She gave it her all...and in a field of weak performances she managed to win. I'm certain we'll be seeing her attempt greater difficulty as the season continues.

bardtoob
10-25-2010, 12:02 AM
^ I did not see anything significantly better except in one component, and not enough to win a competition.

^ :lol: Looking for a "compelling reason" in the Trash Can ... By all means, please keep looking ... Trouble yourself over it ... I'm sure it will do you wonders.

Cherub721
10-25-2010, 02:07 AM
That performance of Witt is one of my all time favorites... it's a compliment Carolina is being compared to that. ;)

I'm definitely one who doesn't like it when technical content is going backwards, but it's just a GP. When it happens at Worlds or Olympics where everyone is supposed to be in top shape, then I'd say it demonstrates the sport going backward or changing priorities; when it happens at a GP, I'd say it demonstrates the weak field of that particular GP.

Was she supposed to withdraw because she couldn't do the lutz and flip? That's kind of what Plushenko did for Worlds (he was too injured to do the quad, and elected not to compete without it). I don't blame her for skating anyway. It's her first GP and an oppourtunity to get her programs out, test her levels, etc. I would hope this is not her jump layout that she plans to do all season. If she (or anyone) is able to win Euros, GPF, or Worlds with that content then I'd say we have a problem.