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gkelly
10-22-2010, 06:40 PM
It is NOT normal to want to kill your parent if Parent is not trying to kill/destroy you (Physically or Financially).


Freud thought it was normal.

That doesn't mean that most people actually go ahead and do it.

bardtoob
10-22-2010, 07:43 PM
It does not sound like the father has dementia. It sounds like the father practiced teaching his son to please him then using negative reinforcement to get achievement, and now it has outlived its usefulness but continues to characterize their relationship.

The son probably never rebelled as an adolescent, that is never tried to achieve goals very contrary to the desires of his parents.

I think the best thing the son could do, at his age, is to learn to patronize his father ("Right, Dad. Right, Dad" while rolling his eyes) since rebelling at this age would look immature. Of course, in order to do this, the son must convince himself that what his father says does not matter and it is not worth the stress.

The best thing you could do for the son is to tell him exactly what you told us.



When my family members say or think “wrong stuff” about events in my life – I give them the “middle finger” in my thoughts, and write them off as “idiots”….. they are not worth it to be “killed or smacked”....…

It is pointless for this son, after 50+ years, to try to change his father. He has to change himself.

skatingfan5
10-22-2010, 07:47 PM
I think the best thing the son could do, at his age, is to learn to patronize the father ("Right, Dad. Right, Dad" while rolling his eyes) since rebelling at this age would look immature. Of course, in order to do this, the son must convince himself that what his father says does not matter because it is not worth the stress.And :rolleyes: at his father wouldn't look immature? It would be better if he could just ignore his father's fantasy memories, especially since it doesn't seem as if anyone else believes them. If he can't and they still elicit such rage, then I agree with those who think it might be helpful if he talked to a therapist/counselor to try to understand why and work on breaking that reaction.

orientalplane
10-22-2010, 07:51 PM
Of course, in order to do this, the son must convince himself that what his father says does not matter because it is not worth the stress.


From what Tinami says, it sounds as though this would be extremely difficult for the son to do without some kind of radical shift in his thinking.

bardtoob
10-22-2010, 08:09 PM
From what Tinami says, it sounds as though this would be extremely difficult for the son to do without some kind of radical shift in his thinking.

Very true. Advice from a friend may be effective, but perhaps therapy would be more effective.

Cupid
10-22-2010, 10:33 PM
Maybe a good crack or two would do him some good! JK

What I think is, perhaps the father is teasing the son, knowing he can get his goat by saying those things. By pushing his buttons so to speak. What the son should say in response is something like, wow, Alzheimer's setting in fast, something he can joke about right back to him. Right back atcha!

Squibble
10-22-2010, 11:03 PM
What the son should say in response is something like, wow, Alzheimer's setting in fast, something he can joke about right back to him. Right back atcha!

:eek: How disgusting and vile! Alzheimer's is not something to joke about, especially if the father may actually be in the early stages of the disease. :mad:

Civic
10-22-2010, 11:10 PM
Do you realize this is the third warped parent/child relationship you've mentioned to this forum? I'm not criticizing or judging you. I'm just intrigued that you're acquainted with at least three different families in which a parent deliberately undermines his/her child.

Moving on to Erik...my gut tells me that his father (for whatever reason) resents or is jealous of his son. From your comments I gather that the old man is usually pleasant and charming individual to others so it's not as if being a mean-spirited SOB is his normal MO. It's only where his son is concerned.

Why would a father belittle and tell lies about a son whom most men would be proud of? Some possible explanations that come to mind: Perhaps he suspects that Erik isn't his biological son; i.e. his wife was unfaithful and Erik is the result. Perhaps he feels competitive towards him when it comes to professional success or his wife's love and attention. Or perhaps, as another poster suggested, he's a narcissist.

Btw, does Erik have children? If so, does his father put him down in front of them? That would probably be a deal breaker for me if I were in his shoes.

Sparks
10-22-2010, 11:22 PM
Or maybe Erik's father is just a mean, cranky old bastard without rhyme or reason. If that's the case (sorry for the upcoming cliche) but Erik can't control his father, but he can control his own reactions. If Erik's father starts laying into him, Erik needs to get up and leave and not respond to it at all. Engaging the father just encourages him. (Classroom Management 101 ) Although there's not much you can personally do, when the father does start in on the son and you're present, it might be helpful for you to walk away with him as a show of support, no matter how fabulous the dinner party/gathering is. Eventually, he'll get the idea that his behavior is unacceptable.
This.
I bet the father does it just to push the son's buttons...and the son takes the bait.

cruisin
10-22-2010, 11:25 PM
Or perhaps, as another poster suggested, he's a narcissist.

Yeah, I was the one who said it. I think it sounds the most likely disorder. I know two people who are diagnosed narcissists, and the behavior is spot on.


Btw, does Erik have children? If so, does his father put him down in front of them? That would probably be a deal breaker for me if I were in his shoes.

Yes, that would pretty much end my relationship with the guy.

Tinami Amori
10-25-2010, 10:23 PM
Thank you every one who took time to read about this personal situation and to give comments and ideas.

Erik is stuck between rock and a hard place. If this is a physical/mental condition, then father means no malice, but his health is deteriorating.....

If it is not a physical/mental condition, but a personality issue, the father is healthy but is a nasty old goat by choice...

Another issue is coming up – looks like father hates being retired. He still owns shares of the firm, but as a shareholder not active partner. He loved his work and projects, and going back to work maybe a great idea. He’s been sobbing about it and acting out ever since he retired. Work might make him “a nicer guy” again.. Oh, I sure hope so.

Thank you, guys.

cruisin
10-25-2010, 11:26 PM
Another issue is coming up – looks like father hates being retired. He still owns shares of the firm, but as a shareholder not active partner. He loved his work and projects, and going back to work maybe a great idea. He’s been sobbing about it and acting out ever since he retired. Work might make him “a nicer guy” again.. Oh, I sure hope so.

That explains a lot, especially if the nastiness started or escalated after the father retired. The father may feel useless and unneeded. He may truly be jealous of Eric's success, in spite of being proud of his son. If he is also narcissistic, that combined with the typical elderly anxieties and feelings of no longer being a vital member of society, could create a very ugly situation. The father may see his life as over. Feeling useful could be a big help.

Civic
10-25-2010, 11:40 PM
Thank you every one who took time to read about this personal situation and to give comments and ideas.

Erik is stuck between rock and a hard place. If this is a physical/mental condition, then father means no malice, but his health is deteriorating.....

If it is not a physical/mental condition, but a personality issue, the father is healthy but is a nasty old goat by choice...

Another issue is coming up – looks like father hates being retired. He still owns shares of the firm, but as a shareholder not active partner. He loved his work and projects, and going back to work maybe a great idea. He’s been sobbing about it and acting out ever since he retired. Work might make him “a nicer guy” again.. Oh, I sure hope so.

Thank you, guys.

Did the mean behavior towards his son only start after he retired or has he always done it; it just got worse after he retired. Also, does Erik work for this firm? If so, having his father return to work there could make a bad situation worse for him. It's bad enough that his father undermines him in social settings but to have him undermind Erik professionally would take things to a whole new level of awfulness. JMHO.

skatemommy
10-25-2010, 11:45 PM
That explains a lot, especially if the nastiness started or escalated after the father retired. The father may feel useless and unneeded. He may truly be jealous of Eric's success, in spite of being proud of his son. If he is also narcissistic, that combined with the typical elderly anxieties and feelings of no longer being a vital member of society, could create a very ugly situation. The father may see his life as over. Feeling useful could be a big help.

Sounds like the best medicine possible!

dupa
10-25-2010, 11:56 PM
...If it is not a physical/mental condition, but a personality issue, the father is healthy but is a nasty old goat by choice...


...

Add to the nasty old goat part the fact that the father can't seem to relate to the son as a grown adult. It sounds to me as if the father is still treating the son as a child and may never be able to turn that "role" off.

eta: Also, I think Erik's feelings are completely justified. As a child we want nothing more than to please our parents. His fathers comments are a put down. That hurts and Erik has probably been raised to respect his elders and feels helpless because he can't respond or "stand up" to his dad because he's never been allowed to. As adults sometimes the hardest relationships are with a parent.