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Norlite
10-17-2010, 10:24 AM
Being overweight is one of the last acceptable targets of bullying/ridicule/harrassment.


Is it? This is always said during these discussions but I disagree.

While I whole-heartedly agree that being thin is pushed by the all forms of the media as the ideal, at every turn, i do not agree that it's the last acceptable target of ridicule or harrassment.

There is not a day goes by that someone does not tell me that I am too thin. In any number of ways. By people in any situation. Even total strangers at times, whether a client at work, or a sales associate in a store who might be helping me find something seems to think a mention that I'm "sooooo thin" seems to be acceptable. And lest anyone think boo hoo, just let me say, it's not said as a compliment. Not in intent or tone of voice. Ever.

I have no doubt that overweight women, (and we are talking women here, most men and any public discussion their weight issues seems to get a bye unless they are perhaps morbidly obese,) also feel a great deal of social disapproval, but I am suggesting that it is no where near as in your face, or vocal on a day to day, personal interactive level.

Even listen to the comments in this thread and any other on this board that discusses weight. No one ever thinks it's a problem to say anything they wish when some celebrity is overly thin. I have never seen post after post laughing and insulting, making jokes and name calling about one who is overweight.

Except maybe by Twizz. And we all know the shit she's gotten for it. ;) But maybe I'll start, just because I'm getting a little tired of the double standard myself. And how it seems to be somehow acceptable.

Watch for it people.



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Norlite
10-17-2010, 10:48 AM
But you don't starve yourself to conform to some warped ideal of the "fashionable" ideal of the female figure, do you?



I can't speak for manelywomen but I can tell you that I don't starve myself at all. I eat very well thank you. Very well. Now that doesn't mean I stuff everything I see that's edible in my mouth, but I certainly enjoy my food.

And as for "fashionable" ideal, seems to work well for me. I can walk into any store and wear anything, any cut or style, without any problem. Clothes shopping is never a problem. That might seemed warped to you, but I'll take it.



Oh, and I've had 4 kids, all healthy, happy babies with good, healthy easy pregnancies.

Nora_Charles
10-17-2010, 03:20 PM
Is it? This is always said during these discussions but I disagree.

I said it's ONE OF THE LAST, not THE last. And yes, it actually is. I realize that as someone who's never lived in our society as an overweight person, you wouldn't know that or have to deal with it, but I do. There are plenty of tv shows, movies, books, and just people in general who make fat jokes without blinking, and everyone laughs along because....hahahaha fat slob! It's SO funny! Because fat people have no feelings!


While I whole-heartedly agree that being thin is pushed by the all forms of the media as the ideal, at every turn, i do not agree that it's the last acceptable target of ridicule or harrassment.

There is not a day goes by that someone does not tell me that I am too thin. In any number of ways. By people in any situation. Even total strangers at times, whether a client at work, or a sales associate in a store who might be helping me find something seems to think a mention that I'm "sooooo thin" seems to be acceptable. And lest anyone think boo hoo, just let me say, it's not said as a compliment. Not in intent or tone of voice. Ever.

I have no doubt that overweight women, (and we are talking women here, most men and any public discussion their weight issues seems to get a bye unless they are perhaps morbidly obese,) also feel a great deal of social disapproval, but I am suggesting that it is no where near as in your face, or vocal on a day to day, personal interactive level.

I'm sorry people are rude enough to judge you and be vocal about it. However, I sincerely doubt that you've ever been told that someone would kill themselves if they looked like you. But I have! I also sincerely doubt you've had rocks thrown at you "just to see what they looked like bouncing off her fat ass", but I have! And I know you're thinking "well, lose weight..." Oh, if only it were that simple! And to turn it around, someone could tell you "Well, if you don't like it, gain a few pounds!" Not so nice, then, is it? The point is, we should all learn to just leave each other alone. It doesn't really matter who gets made fun of/rude remarks more -- it's that they shouldn't be made at all. [For the record, I think this thread is cruel. If she's happy about her pregnancy, then I'm happy for her. She's a grown woman who clearly knows her own body and is hopefully working with a doctor to have the healthiest pregnancy possible. In fact, because she is (or appears to be) at a healthy weight, she's that much more likely *to* have a healthy pregnancy.]





Even listen to the comments in this thread and any other on this board that discusses weight. No one ever thinks it's a problem to say anything they wish when some celebrity is overly thin. I have never seen post after post laughing and insulting, making jokes and name calling about one who is overweight.

I wasn't specifically talking about HERE, and if you read my whole post you'll notice I said I couldn't believe all the snark about how thin she is. I don't find that acceptable either. If she's a healthy weight, she needs left alone, and if she's anorexic/other eating disorder, she needs our sympathy and best wishes.


Except maybe by Twizz. And we all know the shit she's gotten for it. ;) But maybe I'll start, just because I'm getting a little tired of the double standard myself. And how it seems to be somehow acceptable.

Soooo...you're going to prove how wrong it is to make comments about thin people by....making fun of fat people? :huh::huh:





It's not hard. Become a full supporter of the board, which simply means helping to pay the enormous costs of the monthly bandwidth usage, and rep will be available to you.

Gosh, thanks. You've been super helpful! I'm new-ish here and had no idea how things work.

Nora_Charles
10-17-2010, 03:24 PM
I've got your back. I'll take care of this one! :D

Thanks! :)

cruisin
10-17-2010, 04:13 PM
Is it? This is always said during these discussions but I disagree.

While I whole-heartedly agree that being thin is pushed by the all forms of the media as the ideal, at every turn, i do not agree that it's the last acceptable target of ridicule or harrassment.

There is not a day goes by that someone does not tell me that I am too thin. In any number of ways. By people in any situation. Even total strangers at times, whether a client at work, or a sales associate in a store who might be helping me find something seems to think a mention that I'm "sooooo thin" seems to be acceptable. And lest anyone think boo hoo, just let me say, it's not said as a compliment. Not in intent or tone of voice. Ever.

I have no doubt that overweight women, (and we are talking women here, most men and any public discussion their weight issues seems to get a bye unless they are perhaps morbidly obese,) also feel a great deal of social disapproval, but I am suggesting that it is no where near as in your face, or vocal on a day to day, personal interactive level.

Even listen to the comments in this thread and any other on this board that discusses weight. No one ever thinks it's a problem to say anything they wish when some celebrity is overly thin. I have never seen post after post laughing and insulting, making jokes and name calling about one who is overweight.

Norlite, there is no question that you are correct. Extremely thin people do take a lot of grief. I think the difference is that most of the time the comments toward very thin women are out of jealousy. If you are very thin, you either have an eating disorder or you have an amazing metabolism (which is evil ;)). Overweight women get looks of disgust, get picked on, whispered about. Men, for the most part, want nothing to do with them (at least when they are young). Obese people get ridicule for being too big for the ridiculously small seats on airplanes, etc. Obese people get looks of horror when the eat in restaurants.

I have been both. I was an obese teen - it was pure hell. I am now extremely thin. I am someone who became thin, and for many years maintained thin, via eating disorders. I am still obsessed with my weight. I probably always will be, I was tortured as a child/teen. This does not excuse people making comments about your thinness, but I don't think it comes from as ugly a place as the comments made toward "fat" people.

I got comments and bullied as an obese kid, I get comments now. The difference, for me, is that the comments about being thin, now, do not hurt. But, I can see where a woman who might have been teased or bullied for being a "string-bean" as a kid could feel hurt from comments about thinness as an adult. They would not feel like compliments.

I would amend Nora_Charles statement to read that weight (over or under) is one of the last acceptable targets.



And as for "fashionable" ideal, seems to work well for me. I can walk into any store and wear anything, any cut or style, without any problem. Clothes shopping is never a problem. That might seemed warped to you, but I'll take it.

It works for me as well. Except, with my height, it's not as easy to find length. But for me, it has been and will always be a struggle to remain this thin. If I were ever to gain a lot of weight, it would not be other's attitude toward me that would be a problem, it would be my own self esteem.

Norlite
10-17-2010, 06:08 PM
I realize that as someone who's never lived in our society as an overweight person, you wouldn't know..........

snip

And I know you're thinking "well, lose weight..." Oh, if only it were that simple!

that's a couple of pretty big assumptions.




And to turn it around, someone could tell you "Well, if you don't like it, gain a few pounds!" Not so nice, then, is it?

Been told often to "gain a few" "eat a cookie" and no, it's not so nice. That is what I'm saying.




[For the record, I think this thread is cruel.

Of course it is. It's the entire point of my post.



I think the difference is that most of the time the comments toward very thin women are out of jealousy. If you are very thin, you either have an eating disorder or you have an amazing metabolism (which is evil ;)).



I think it's a big mistake (not to mention awfully smug) to believe most comments made to very thin women are made out of jealousy.

For one thing, many people do believe you must have an eating disorder, and that's not something other people see green over.

The Accordion
10-17-2010, 06:59 PM
I am glad for everyone's bravery in here sharing such personal stories. I hadn't really considered too much that being very thin would meet with such nasty comments (in "real life" as opposed to FSU snarking where no one seems to be safe)

So I am grateful to be made aware that is the case and will watch more what might be said in my classes (I teach high school). I guess having seen larger kids get picked on a great deal - I am just more sensitive to those comments.

Obviously it is just as unacceptable to pick on someone for being thinner than average - whatever the cause. So thanks again for making me more aware as I may have assumed it wasn't hurtful to make comments about thinness for the same reason other people on this thread thought that.

I will say,however,that I have seen again and again that being picked on for being overweight is considered one of the more acceptable reasons to pick on someone - because there is a perception that it is their fault and if they stopped "eating so often" or "eating junk" or being lazy - then they wouldn't be overweight.

I am lucky in that I teach electives - theatre and dance- where most of the kids want to be there and are generally very supportive of one another. But I remember very clearly one day when my class was having a discussion about homophobic behaviour. One particular student was mentioned for mercilessly picking on kids he though were gay. The class was horrified by his behavour - but then someone cracked a joke about him being overweight - and the same kids were laughing at him.

They did get quiet and reflective when I pointed out what had just happened. I guess it was a great teaching moment - but it is also an interesting reflection of how people think. I have also seen kids (not at school but elsewhere) wearing shirts with the "no fat chicks" sign on them and can't imagine a "no skinny chicks" shirt.

I have also had several experiences with staff members thinking the same type of negative /dimsissive thoughts about kids who are overweight. I once brought up concerns at a school based team meeting about a girl - losing weight very quickly and along with it - her energy. To me her rapid weight loss and lerhargy seemed to suggest an eating disorder- or some sort of depression that was leading to poor eating. One of the other teachers said that she was normal now - and that she was just getting back to her previous weight. I do not exaggerate to say she talked about her "not nomal"weight with disgust. And the girl hadn't even been that big! She had been very active in my class at her "larger" size - clearly healthy and capable of being active.

Anyhow - none of this makes picking on someone for being skinny acceptable either.

And for the record - the other reason I have come across that is the most acceptable to pick on someone is smell. When kids smell bad they can be totally shunned - and generally even the nicest kids think that is okay.

mmscfdcsu
10-17-2010, 07:04 PM
And for the record - the other reason I have come that is the most acceptable to pick on someone is smell. When kids smell bad they can be totally shunned - and generally even the nicest kids think that is okay.

Yes, and then there is the fact that it still seems okay to many to make terrible jokes about the mentally ill. I work with many clients diagnosed with schizophrenia. Those jokes and comments hurt them so badly. Some people would never think of making a cancer or A.I.D.S. joke, but think nothing of making jokes about the mentally ill. :rolleyes:

The Accordion
10-17-2010, 07:05 PM
Yes, and then there is the fact that it still seems okay to many to make terrible jokes about the mentally ill. I work with many clients diagnosed with schizophrenia. Those jokes and comments hurt them so badly. Some people would never think of making a cancer or A.I.D.S. joke, but think nothing of making jokes about the mentally ill. :rolleyes:

That is true! I particularly loathe that there is some person on the Internet doing something called Tourettes Guy.

orientalplane
10-17-2010, 08:34 PM
Yes, and then there is the fact that it still seems okay to many to make terrible jokes about the mentally ill. I work with many clients diagnosed with schizophrenia. Those jokes and comments hurt them so badly. Some people would never think of making a cancer or A.I.D.S. joke, but think nothing of making jokes about the mentally ill. :rolleyes:

ITA. As someone who had a seven-week stay at a psychiatric hospital earlier this year, (and have now lost count of the number of times I've been in), I do my best to laugh at the ubiquitous 'loony bin' jokes, but sometimes it's very hard. It seems more acceptable to laugh at mental illness than something physical, but the reality and the resulting impact is just as distressing.

cruisin
10-17-2010, 09:29 PM
I think it's a big mistake (not to mention awfully smug) to believe most comments made to very thin women are made out of jealousy.

For one thing, many people do believe you must have an eating disorder, and that's not something other people see green over.

Did you read my entire post? It doesn't sound like you did.

And sadly, some people do "see green" over eating disorders. I knew a few people who told me they wished they could throw up more easily. Very sad :(.


Yes, and then there is the fact that it still seems okay to many to make terrible jokes about the mentally ill. I work with many clients diagnosed with schizophrenia. Those jokes and comments hurt them so badly. Some people would never think of making a cancer or A.I.D.S. joke, but think nothing of making jokes about the mentally ill. :rolleyes:

Yes. Even in our everyday language we use words that are insulting to the mentally ill. We call people crazy, psychos, mental cases, etc. I have heard kids call each other ADD girl or boy, to imply they have a disorder, if they are not getting something.

PDilemma
10-17-2010, 11:50 PM
I am rather thin. And used to be extremely thin when I was younger.

From 4th to 6th grade, the other girls called me "tapeworm" and the teachers' response was that it really was a very clever nickname.

I was relentlessly bullied for being underweight. I have been bullied as an adult for being underweight. An extremely overweight colleague used to call me "bag of bones" and tell me I was single because "no one wants to f*** a bag of bones". Complaints to the boss resulted in me being told that since she was overweight, she had a lot of issues and I needed to be more sensitive to her and that it certainly would not be appropriate for anyone to address the issue with her.

Don't tell me that it is okay to pick on the overweight and thin people don't get it.

cruisin
10-18-2010, 02:23 AM
I am rather thin. And used to be extremely thin when I was younger.

From 4th to 6th grade, the other girls called me "tapeworm" and the teachers' response was that it really was a very clever nickname.

I was relentlessly bullied for being underweight. I have been bullied as an adult for being underweight. An extremely overweight colleague used to call me "bag of bones" and tell me I was single because "no one wants to f*** a bag of bones". Complaints to the boss resulted in me being told that since she was overweight, she had a lot of issues and I needed to be more sensitive to her and that it certainly would not be appropriate for anyone to address the issue with her.

Don't tell me that it is okay to pick on the overweight and thin people don't get it.

It is NEVER okay to pick on anyone. Whether it is because they are overweight or underweight. Even if a person is underweight due to an eating disorder, they should not be subjected to ridicule. Persons with eating disorders suffer enough without being made to feel like freaks. And those who are naturally thin should not be accused of eating disorders. But we live in a society that feels it can comment on our appearance. And, at the risk of some getting upset, it is still much easier to be very thin than very overweight in our society. Yes, there is name calling on either end, and that is hurtful. But, the thin are not subjected to the contemplation of higher fares on planes, higher rates for health insurance, and hideous, unflattering clothing. And most people envy anyone who can eat what they want and stay thin.

What your colleague said to you was offensive and she should have been reprimanded for it. As someone with weight "issues", she should have the sensitivity to not attack someone over weight.

I can only say that I was obese, but for the last 35 years I have been underweight. The comments I get now, even the mean ones, are nowhere near as hurtful as the ones I got when I was "fat" and unworthy of breathing space (which was how I was made to feel).

made_in_canada
10-18-2010, 07:29 AM
I've also been bullied and put down for being underweight. I'm not actually but look like I am. It hurts. I can't really help the way I look short of stopping to do all the activities that provide joy in my life.



And as for "fashionable" ideal, seems to work well for me. I can walk into any store and wear anything, any cut or style, without any problem. Clothes shopping is never a problem. That might seemed warped to you, but I'll take it.


Count yourself as lucky. I'm quite thin but I can NEVER find things that fit.



Been told often to "gain a few" "eat a cookie" and no, it's not so nice. That is what I'm saying.


So isn't, especially when it's incessant!


I am rather thin. And used to be extremely thin when I was younger.

From 4th to 6th grade, the other girls called me "tapeworm" and the teachers' response was that it really was a very clever nickname.

I was relentlessly bullied for being underweight. I have been bullied as an adult for being underweight. An extremely overweight colleague used to call me "bag of bones" and tell me I was single because "no one wants to f*** a bag of bones". Complaints to the boss resulted in me being told that since she was overweight, she had a lot of issues and I needed to be more sensitive to her and that it certainly would not be appropriate for anyone to address the issue with her.

Don't tell me that it is okay to pick on the overweight and thin people don't get it.

This happens so much. Everyone has issues about something. What makes one person's issues more valid than the next?

Andora
10-18-2010, 03:01 PM
I get that Norlite's point might not resonate if you haven't experienced it, but she has a good one. I've had friends who were naturally slender and sometimes alarmingly so, regardless of what they ate. While my being thicker is often never mentioned in polite company, their weight seems to be open for discussion at any time.

I don't understand why it's so much less offensive to comment on someone's skinny body than someone's larger one. Both cases are rude and uncalled for. I guess more people have experienced some form of harassment or frustration from being overweight than under, but that doesn't discount either experience.


Yes, and then there is the fact that it still seems okay to many to make terrible jokes about the mentally ill. I work with many clients diagnosed with schizophrenia. Those jokes and comments hurt them so badly. Some people would never think of making a cancer or A.I.D.S. joke, but think nothing of making jokes about the mentally ill. :rolleyes:

Ableist language is definitely a problem. I try (and fail) to curb it in myself, but I find we're unfortunately so immune to how offensive it can be, so I forget. I've seen attempts to discuss it with others, and it's often met with the whole "geez, PC police" mindset, which doesn't solve anything.