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znachki
10-14-2010, 05:49 PM
A few years back the word "paradigm" came into vogue and was the buzzword of the moment in management circles. No one used models or examples, everything was a "paradigm".

The day I saw this headline in the real estate section of the paper circa 1996, was the day the word paradigm became overused to me:

"House as Paradigm for King Neighborhood"

How pretentious can you get?:rolleyes:

A phrase I'd like to see retired? "Make no mistake". GAHHH

jlai
10-14-2010, 06:04 PM
I do that when having fun with my coworkers. :lol: Another coworker uses the suffix "-osity" in the same manner. :lol:

I hope that didn't sound like a monstrosity of stuffiness :P

gkelly
10-14-2010, 08:28 PM
I also have issues with some of the new words being coined in academia.
For example, 'historicization' and 'problematization'.

I edit work for a PhD student who insists on using these two words, though I advise him against it.
They are ugly to read, ugly to enunciate. . .and I do not see why the English language needs them at all. IMO it is much preferable to say 'historical perspective' and 'examine problems'.

But I don't think that's exactly what those -ization words, or the -ize verbs they derive from, actually mean. You'd have to recast the whole sentence. Which quite likely would improve its readibility. But the reason those verbs and their derivative nouns were coined by academics in the first place was to be able to condense a complex concept into a single word.


BTW, when I was in grad school I could never remember what "reify" or "reification" meant until I started to semitranslate in my head to "thingify" or "thingification."

Marlowe
10-15-2010, 01:53 AM
Right here and now, at this very moment in time as we speak, I am, literally, being taken to the cleaner's. The fact of the matter is, that, after the gentleman in charge of the mens department literally threw I and my husband under the bus, him and me went and bought our glasses elsewhere in another store. These here glasses were a gift to my husband and I. The truth of the matter is, that, as we speak in this here time, right now at present, neither him or I want to ever see that rude, mean, thoughtless gentleman again.

Nora_Charles
10-15-2010, 01:59 AM
Right here and now, at this very moment in time as we speak, I am, literally, being taken to the cleaner's. The fact of the matter is, that, after the gentleman in charge of the mens department literally threw I and my husband under the bus, him and me went and bought our glasses elsewhere in another store. These here glasses were a gift to my husband and I. The truth of the matter is, that, as we speak in this here time, right now at present, neither him or I want to ever see that rude, mean, thoughtless gentleman again.

Welp, that there is terrible. Her and her husband sure got treated real bad. Alls I know is I ain't shopping there no more, neither, centering around these accusations. Anyways, I literally have a ton of housework that won't get done if me and these youngins don't hop to.

MacMadame
10-15-2010, 02:39 AM
When I pointed out the error, she looked at me and said, "life must be very difficult for you".
Aww. How completely unsympathetic. I would have completely commiserated with you.


DEFINITELY
Don't you mean definately? ;)


It's perfectly acceptable to say things such as "I feel more calm" rather than "I feel calmer". It just gives a slightly different nuance to the clause or sentence.
Or to quote the poets, Metallica: What don't kill you, make you more strong.


Wonderful titles. I will wear them with pride whenever I go out.
You should use them as your user title. ;)

PrincessLeppard
10-15-2010, 03:54 AM
You should use them as your user title. ;)

So every time I insult Prancer, she gets a new user title?

:saint:

Prancer
10-15-2010, 03:56 AM
So every time I insult Prancer, she gets a new user title?

:saint:

It's sort of like It's a Wonderful Life, only not.

Your plan will only work if you can keep your insults short and sweet; there is a length limit on user titles.

Nmsis
10-15-2010, 04:14 AM
I also have issues with some of the new words being coined in academia.
For example, 'historicization' and 'problematization'.

I edit work for a PhD student who insists on using these two words, though I advise him against it.
They are ugly to read, ugly to enunciate. . .and I do not see why the English language needs them at all. IMO it is much preferable to say 'historical perspective' and 'examine problems'.
What is funny is those word actually exists and are completly academic in french, "l'historicisation" in social science and "la problématisation" in basic academic reasoning.



In writing classes, students are told to "shun the tions!"
What do you have against the tions ?
They are only natural in substantives coming from latin.
Words are concept. Shun the word, shun the idea.
Long live to the tions ! Bring them in ! *brandishing my placard*
:P


Now about the article ...
"Many people can't write english properly nowadays, boohoo, english is dead" ...



... :rofl:
Well, how many people could write english properly 100 years ago, or 200 years ago ?
And how is current english proper compared to Shakespeare's english ?
It seems to me that the journalist has to "historiciser" his own conception of what the english language is. :P
Talking about dying english is actually shocking compared to languages that are really dying around the world (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/04/ancient-language-extinct-speaker-dies) which is the true sad thing.
Language is not only a utility, it is a mind frame and a treasure of humanity. Lost languages are invaluable losses.

And if written english might be in trouble in the US (is it the same in the UK ?), spoken english is thriving. You're saying it yourself, people are cornering new words.
Distortion, that's how a language often works and evolves. Like it or not, that shows vitality.
English is culturally more of an oral language than a written one anyway. That's very visible when I compare to french.

So actually, I think the article lacks "une problématisation" :P, ie a definition of what the english language is and a dynamic questioning of the current problem. Rather than a lazy assessment.


In other words, that's a dull article (that's the tion-proof version for Prancer ;) )



Taboo words tend to work their way into common use as they lose their shock value; new taboo words take their place.
The very concept of taboo words is quite strange actually.
Here we make dictionaries out of them. :D
Want some insult dictionary (http://www.amazon.fr/Dictionnaire-injures-Robert-Edouard/dp/2264039752), Little dictionary of insults, dirty words and other profanities (http://www.amazon.fr/petit-dico-insultes-autres-injures/dp/235288067X/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1287109048&sr=1-12), Slang dictionary (http://www.amazon.fr/Argot-fran%C3%A7ais-populaire-Jean-Paul-Colin/dp/2035852994/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1287109158&sr=1-1) by the venerable éditions Larousse.
My parents used to have 4 or 5 of these kinds of books and I own at least 3. They are very popular.
*spreading the love of the words, the tions, the profanities and the rest of them, be them english, french or every other language :cheer: *

Prancer
10-15-2010, 05:17 AM
What do you have against the tions ?

They come to us from the French :lol:. Damn Normans, screwing up the perfectly plain and functional Anglo-Saxon with Latin.:P

But mostly it's because -tion words (as well as other forms) are smothered verbs (http://lighthouse-writing-tips.blogspot.com/2005/10/dont-smother-verbs.html) and using the verb forms whenever possible usually makes for clearer, more direct prose. Rather than trying to get people to shun ideas, the purpose is to force student writers into expressing their ideas more clearly.

For example, a student might write:

Additional authorization for the administration of the survey by the staff members has emanated from the director of the department.

It's grammatically correct, but it's a clunky sentence that would greatly improve with some judicious shunning of the -tions.


The very concept of taboo words is quite strange actually.
Here we make dictionaries out of them. :D

Here, too. I would guess most languages have them. Taboo words are just words that aren't used in polite society, not words that aren't used at all.

VIETgrlTerifa
10-15-2010, 07:20 AM
But I don't think that's exactly what those -ization words, or the -ize verbs they derive from, actually mean. You'd have to recast the whole sentence. Which quite likely would improve its readibility. But the reason those verbs and their derivative nouns were coined by academics in the first place was to be able to condense a complex concept into a single word.


BTW, when I was in grad school I could never remember what "reify" or "reification" meant until I started to semitranslate in my head to "thingify" or "thingification."

That's what I thought too. I'm a poli-sci major and I'm used to Political Scientists making up words in order to give a word or term to a complicated concept. Words like "polyarchy," "satisficing," "transaltology," etc.

For example, problematization isn't simply "examining problems" but really a concept in which one basically challenges what is considered "common knowledge" or "common sense." Problematization as defined by Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problematization).

As for historicization, it seems that it was originally a tool developed by Bertolt Brecht for actors in which they must interpret their actions as a product of historical development. So, it's not really a "historical perspective" because in order to have that perspective, it must have occurred already, whereas historicization sounds like you have to make something historical when it's not. I could be wrong though. These are the first times I came across those two terms.

Nmsis
10-15-2010, 06:36 PM
They come to us from the French :lol:. Damn Normans, screwing up the perfectly plain and functional Anglo-Saxon with Latin.:P
Then blame the Danes. :P
Normands (North men) were vikkings coming from Denmark and had just settled in France for a bit more than a century when they became interested in England.


But mostly it's because -tion words (as well as other forms) are smothered verbs (http://lighthouse-writing-tips.blogspot.com/2005/10/dont-smother-verbs.html) and using the verb forms whenever possible usually makes for clearer, more direct prose. Rather than trying to get people to shun ideas, the purpose is to force student writers into expressing their ideas more clearly.

For example, a student might write:

Additional authorization for the administration of the survey by the staff members has emanated from the director of the department.

It's grammatically correct, but it's a clunky sentence that would greatly improve with some judicious shunning of the -tions.
Ok, remember than I'm french so my reasoning might not fit exactly for english but ...
Yes, you could write it differently but it would put the emphasis on different points.
Here the emphasis is put on "additional authorization" and "director of the department. If I'm working in the secretariat of this administration, that's the two information that are going to interest me the most. So the information is better worded in putting the emphasis on these two points, because I'm going to look for a real paper with the right signature.

Because if you word it like :
The director of the department has additionnally authorized ..." oops doesn't work for this sentence but worded that way, it would emphasize the given authorization. A more interesting wording for the people who are waiting for it. But it doesn't tell the secretariat what kind of authorisation has been given. It could be oral as much as written as it is described as an action. As a secretary, I woud wonder if that information is supposed to matter to me. But let's try another one.

The director of the department has emited an additional authorisation for the administration of the survey by the staff members ..."
But then, the clarity and "lightness" has been reached not by getting rid of a "tion" word but rather by dropping an intransitive verb for a transitive one which gives a lighter structure to the sentence. With this sentence, everyone should be happy, the secretary as the staff members. But still, as a secretary, I would be more interested to have the additional authorization information first, as it is the one that interests me directly.

To take one of the examples given in the blog
We had a discussion about the matter with the staff director.
We discussed the matter with the staff director.

The first wording for me puts the emphasis about the discussion, gives it more weight and more will. The second indicates me that it was discussed but was it as an anecdote or as a serious issue that needed time ? I don't know. If I was waiting for the result of the discussion, I would really prefer the first wording.

So no, I wouldn't prefer one form over another. That would restrain my capacity to adapt my language to the people I'm talking to or to put some nuances in my speech / writing.
At least, that's how I see things from my own perspective.

See, I really don't get the principle and it actually shocks me. :o





Here, too. I would guess most languages have them. Taboo words are just words that aren't used in polite society, not words that aren't used at all.
What I meant is that there is no taboo word here.
No beep on TV, no **** on boards.

In polite society, you can say anything you want. It's the way to say it that matters. If it is done beautifully, with humor or not in a vulgar way, people will accept it. If not, people will label it as vulgar. Particularly ugly for the girls and ugly for the boys. Not that vulgarity is censored or prohibited either.

Even with the very polite friends of mine, it happened I had the insult or slang dictionary within reach and we began a fun moment.

Poets, singers, writers have dignified those words and they are absolutly not taboo (thinking about François Villon, Bruant, the very controversial but brilliant Céline, Ferré, Brel, Brassens, Audiard, Raymond Queneau with Zazie dans le métro, King Ubu, Perret, Renaud, and so many others). I'm particularly thinking about a hugely popular song from 1974, le zizi from Pierre Perret, which made kids and grannies laugh and sing about 'the dick' (in a quite descriptive way) with all their heart, even on tv screens. :rofl:
There is a true culture about popular language and love for words that actually transcends the notion of "polite society".

Behaving is great but taboo words ? No way.
It would sooo make me will to say them . :P

*Jen*
10-15-2010, 06:59 PM
I was trying to watch 'Grey's Anatomy' online. I searched for it and couldn't find it. I could only get what I was looking for by getting rid of the apostrophe :rofl:

Prancer
10-15-2010, 07:31 PM
Then blame the Danes. :P
Normands (North men) were vikkings coming from Denmark and had just settled in France for a bit more than a century when they became interested in England.

Only a century and still not considered French. Poor Normans, not wanted anywhere.


But it doesn't tell the secretariat what kind of authorisation has been given. It could be oral as much as written as it is described as an action.

But that is also the case with the original wording, in which the authorization can be oral or written. There might be a piece of paper, there might not be. The original wording would indicate to me that the authorization was more likely to be oral, actually, but that would be a guess on my part and not something I would count on.


The director of the department has emited an additional authorisation for the administration of the survey by the staff members ..."
But then, the clarity and "lightness" has been reached not by getting rid of a "tion" word but rather by dropping an intransitive verb for a transitive one which gives a lighter structure to the sentence. With this sentence, everyone should be happy

Er, I definitely wouldn't be. If anything, :scream:


The first wording for me puts the emphasis about the discussion, gives it more weight and more will. The second indicates me that it was discussed but was it as an anecdote or as a serious issue that needed time ? I don't know. If I was waiting for the result of the discussion, I would really prefer the first wording.

Whether you discussed the matter or you had a discussion about the matter, "the matter" can still be either an anecdote or the subject of a serious discussion that needed time. There is no indication in either of the weight of "the matter," although in English. "the matter" would imply that the topic was a serious one, whether it was discussed or the subject of a discssion.


Behaving is great but taboo words ? No way.
It would sooo make me will to say them . :P

And it does indeed have that effect on some people.

skatingfan5
10-15-2010, 07:56 PM
In polite society, you can say anything you want. It's the way to say it that matters. If it is done beautifully, with humor or not in a vulgar way, people will accept it. If not, people will label it as vulgar. Particularly ugly for the girls and ugly for the boys. Not that vulgarity is censored or prohibited either.Is this the case for French children, as well? Could a student greet a teacher with "Good morning, Mr. xxxx, you m-f'er!" if done in a sweet and cheerful manner? Would there be any discipline for such "vulgarity" in the classroom? From what you have posted about no words being taboo, I suppose not. It sheds a new and very different light on French culture for me.[/QUOTE]