PDA

View Full Version : American Idol - Season 10 - New Menagerie



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27

cailuj365
10-12-2010, 10:07 PM
I knew you were going to say that, Allskate, lol.

I think two years is a lot for someone like Archie, especially since he's a pop artist with a tween fanbase and only had one song that ever made it big on the radio, and it was the very first one. It's not just two years since he's released albums. It's two years since he's been on pop radio period. If I were Jive, I would have gotten him right back into the studio and sent out a new lead single ASAP, especially if I knew that none of the other songs on the first album would work well. If Something Bout Love had been released not too long after Crush, I think it would have been a hit. I would NOT have used that time to make a Christmas album. To me, Archie's fanbase is the kind that needs constant exposure or else they'll forget. Archie had 178k or something the first week for his debut album. Two years later, 20k. To me, that's more than just illegal downloading. That's forgotten and replaced. I think it's why they've had so much trouble getting any of his singles to work too.

I think that could definitely happen to Adam for his next album, who I was worrying about initially, if he waits too long. I think 50% of his followers are older women, but I swear Beliebers make up 70% of his twitter followers. Every time I see his follower list, most of them have the word "Belieber" in their name. Pink didn't even have any downtime between her last single of Funhouse and her new single. Rihanna released an album last November and is releasing another one this fall. Lady Gaga is finally not as omnipresent on the radio, but she's wearing meat dresses to keep herself in the papers. I think pop is just a different type of animal.


Adam could debut a new single on Idol towards the end of the season and then release an album in the summer or fall.

I think this is the plan. When I said spring/summer, I didn't mean March!

Allskate
10-12-2010, 10:23 PM
It was less than two years between albums for Archie. And I just don't buy the idea that Something About Love could even have existed right after Crush was released, much less been a success. It's just not very good and rushing immediately into a new album would have been a signal that the first one sucked. A one year gap between albums is VERY uncommon, so Rhianna is not a good example. It's not at all uncommon to have the gap Archie had. In fact, it's pretty typical. I think Pink's last two albums were released more than two years apart. Very few artists are going to agree to release albums back to back because it impacts the quality of the album as well as making it very difficult to tour, which is where most of these artists are making their money.

What's the point of pushing an exhausted artist to hurry up and release a crap album? If Adam really can't wait as long as the typical artist to release his next album, then he's got other problems to worry about.

cailuj365
10-12-2010, 11:19 PM
It was less than two years between albums for Archie. And I just don't buy the idea that Something About Love could even have existed right after Crush was released, much less been a success. It's just not very good and rushing immediately into a new album would have been a signal that the first one sucked. A one year gap between albums is VERY uncommon, so Rhianna is not a good example. It's not at all uncommon to have the gap Archie had. In fact, it's pretty typical. I think Pink's last two albums were released more than two years apart. Very few artists are going to agree to release albums back to back because it impacts the quality of the album as well as making it very difficult to tour, which is where most of these artists are making their money.

What's the point of pushing an exhausted artist to hurry up and release a crap album? If Adam really can't wait as long as the typical artist to release his next album, then he's got other problems to worry about.

Something Bout Love is fine. It's Elevator that sucks.

And if his first album didn't have anything else as good as Crush, then it's not very good, is it? Rihanna's first two singles from her last album sucked, and if it weren't for Rude Boy and Eminem putting her on Love The Way You Lie, it would have been a bad era. Her fans knew that. Her record label knew that. That's why she's already released a new single and has made a new album so quickly. If a product isn't working, I don't think there's anything wrong with going back and trying to make a new one. She also still toured for her last album anyway. Pink's Funhouse was released in 2008, but she's released like four or five singles within those two years so that she was never gone for too long. It was a good album so she had the luxury of doing that. And she performed at award shows during that time as well. Jay Sean had one big hit and another relatively large hit last year and then already released a single for his new album this summer. Kesha is already starting to do demos for her new album, and her first one came out in January of this year. She's toured too. Bieber released two albums within two years. Usher released an album in March, had one big single, and then released a single from a new EP in July. This incredibly fast pace is what's typical now in pop.


You probably missed my edit, but I don't think Adam's new single would come out until late spring and the album summer/fall at the earliest. This is pretty much what he's said as well. And if you want to talk exhausted artists, talk about Gaga. Her tour has been going non-stop since November 2009 and is continuing all the way to May 2011. Two albums in two years and another album next year.

BigB08822
10-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Gaga has been going nonstop but her 2nd album was her first album with a few songs added in. I know it was more than the usual 2 or 3 extras that define a re-release but she didn't release an entirely new album, I've never thought of it that way, at least. Her next album will be all new material and THAT will be a new album.

I think it is becoming more and more common to rush out albums. It is becoming so much more about single sales and album sales continue to plummet so the only way to do that is pop out albums like crazy and hope the debut singles are huge sellers. If you can get 2-3 big selling singles off of an album then awesome and hurry up and move on to the next one. Pop music is also more and more cookie cutter these days so the hit makers churn out hits one after the other with no end in sight.

Allskate
10-13-2010, 01:31 AM
Something Bout Love is fine. It's Elevator that sucks.

Elevator sucks more than Something About Love. :lol: And the album as a whole pretty much sucks.



And if his first album didn't have anything else as good as Crush, then it's not very good, is it?

No it isn't. And, IMO, an album shouldn't be released if it sucks. Spend time to fix it, especially if it isn't your first Idol release. I'm glad they're taking time on Cook's and Kelly's albums. But, if an album sucks, I don't think the answer is to release it and immediately begin making a new sucky album. And, if an album doesn't suck, I don't think it's a good idea to rush into making a second one in order to avoid being off the radio another couple of months. Suckiness is the most important factor, IMO. :lol: If Adam's career is going to end because he spends a couple of extra months to make the album really good, then he's got a pretty lame career, IMO. I hope he doesn't feel so desperate that he rushes into a crap album or gets exhausted and does something stupid. FYE certainly doesn't suck, but I think he's capable of a better album.

I'm also betting that Rhianna didn't have much artistic imput with her upcoming album. She couldn't have had much time for that. I don't think that's the approach Adam wants to take. And don't get me started on Ke$ha. I hope that Adam never uses her as a model for his career.

I disagree that most pop artists are releasing one album a year. It's not like everyone is releasing a new album every year. They're not. You can find examples, but that's not most artists. Even with Gaga, she did her album a few years ago (though it was released in the U.S. until a couple of years ago), then did an expanded version last year. She's actually got material for a new album already recorded and said she's not releasing it until next year. And, frankly, I wonder if the stupid stunts she's been pulling lately aren't the result of exhaustion.

Kruss
10-13-2010, 02:05 AM
Are you sure he was speaking literally and not figuratively? I'd be bummed if he decided to sing a lot at the top of his range.

I am not sure, but I know that he and a few of the songwriters he's worked with have mentioned him singing like he's never sung before. I think he's stretching his vocals, seems to be anyway. Which actually makes sense since he only started genuinely singing his own style with Analog Heart, and continued it through Idol and beyond. Before the, he would sing more like other people which is why his Axium work sounded so different. He says his time in Tulsa (after Axium) is where he "found himself musically", so it seems to make sense to me that his vocals are continuing to develop in style, tone and range the more he works with different styles and songwriters.

But rest assured, I'm pretty sure he's not about to go all Frankie Valli on us. :lol:

Allskate
10-13-2010, 06:03 AM
But rest assured, I'm pretty sure he's not about to go all Frankie Valli on us. :lol:

:lol: I wasn't really worried about that.

So, a few days ago, Lee tweeted that he'd be debuting his new single, "Live It Up" on Ryan Seacrest's radio show tomorrow. But, tonight, he tweeted that they've changed at the last minute to a totally new song, one that hasn't been played for anyone yet. Huh. If Live It Up isn't being received well, I guess that's a good thing. The new single is called "Sweet Serendipity." Ryan tweeted that it has a "solid sound" and is like John Mayer meets Jason Mraz. John Mayer? :confused:

And the Idol singers continue to have smooth single releases. :lol:

BigB08822
10-13-2010, 06:43 AM
It is never good when a single is changed at the last minute. Not unless this new song was something they came across and rushed him into the studio to record and it just has to be the lead single because it is so good. Most likely the original lead single simply wasn't getting the feedback they hoped for. They are really taking their chances with a song no one has heard, it could test way worse than the first choice for all they know...

cailuj365
10-13-2010, 06:45 AM
The Fame Monster still spawned three huge singles, which is more than most albums, and Bad Romance is probably the song of the year. I mean, technically, it's an EP, but it's also another CD with eight completely new tracks that's been packaged and sold separately from The Fame in every major retail outlet. Anyway, EP or not, my point being is that Gaga did not stop after her fourth single from The Fame. She kept going and released The Fame Monster. She's not releasing her new album this year, because she'd risk even more overexposure than she already has. And she's always been pulling stupid "stunts." We just hadn't grown tired of them yet.

Look, if you want to wait four years for a new CD, that's fine, but it better be damn worth it. Green Day's American Idiot was worth it and it worked out for them just fine because not only was the material good (which I always said is going to be helpful) but anti-Bush sentiment was also particularly high. If Jive decides not to push Archie on the radio after one single, then they better have made sure that his next album was filled with some awesome, current, radio-friendly tracks. But like you said, the album sucks! If SBL had been released while Fireflies (which it sounds like a B-rate, more poppy version of) was still huge, it could have done better IMO. Instead, Archie released a Christmas album, and radio moved on from its love affair with Owl City. Jive is doing nothing for him, his image is way too innocent, and hardly anyone is hearing his music. He's better off being signed to an indie label. He'd have the same results but less pressure.

However, you can also wait four years and flop tremendously like Christina Aguilera did. Why? Because 1) the art of good singing has been forgotten in pop music, 2) she had been replaced by Lady Gaga who she then got constantly negatively compared to, and 3) she ultimately failed because her first single was just bad and her second promotional single was even worse. Oh, and then she ended up having her tour canceled.

If Adam can come out with a California Gurls/Breakaway type of success for his second album, he'll be fine. However, I think he's already partially forgotten, despite a very nice tour situation, and Bruno Mars has taken over major hype as the male voice to listen to in pop music. Adam has already been off of TV for too long as well. A lot of Adam fans were upset that Allison got the SYTYCD spot over the summer instead of IIHY, and while I'm not one of them, I understand their argument. The only time he gets on E!News now is when he's attacking paparazzi. Also, Adam isn't 21. Time is not on his side. He'll turn 29 in January (and he actually looks 28 unlike Cory Monteith), and while you can be 49 and doing rock, 29 is nearing the road as a dance pop artist. If that's what he wants to keep doing (and considering that he keeps mentioning Max Martin, I'd say that's a yes), he has to do it relatively soon. And if you want real suckiness, there's a group of Adam fans that want him to do a hip-hop collaboration, since that seems to be the big thing now. I just....no, I don't even want to imagine that.

I know Kesha must be detestable to you, but Kesha's business model is working awesome for her so far. Four huge singles, platinum album, music played in every college party I hear in my dorm, VMA and AMA award nominations, and album re-release coming up. Though touring is her weakest part, Kesha wouldn't benefit from it as much as other artists do. I heard she's in a 360 deal with RCA, which means that RCA gets a big cut of any tour profits anyway but in return, they give her more marketing and promo. And actually, Kesha is stealing from Adam (but since they're make out buddies, it's okay?). Kesha's new music video to Take It Off completely takes the "freaks dancing in a secret locale" idea but enhances it with better special effects and an actual plot. (It's actually really awesome.) She could be old news in two years, but her style was never timeless to begin with, and she's definitely making the most of it while she can.

"Sweet Serendipity" is an awkward-sounding title, huh. This isn't one of the four that Lyndsey Parker listened to, and I feel like they send what they think are the top four single contenders. Though I'll be curious to hear what it sounds like, sounding like John Mayer isn't that promising either. John Mayer can't even get a decent hit these days.

BigB08822
10-13-2010, 06:56 AM
Though I'll be curious to hear what it sounds like, sounding like John Mayer isn't that promising either. John Mayer can't even get a decent hit these days.

LOL! True, but John Mayer can manage a Grammy nomination for simply coughing while near a microphone. Alicia Keys, Norah Jones and Beyonce seem to have the same kind of skill. Not that Lee will ever be a Grammy darling but just saying, it isn't the worst thing to be compared to John Mayer, haha...

Allskate
10-13-2010, 07:48 AM
It is never good when a single is changed at the last minute. Not unless this new song was something they came across and rushed him into the studio to record and it just has to be the lead single because it is so good. Most likely the original lead single simply wasn't getting the feedback they hoped for. They are really taking their chances with a song no one has heard, it could test way worse than the first choice for all they know...

He already had finished recording when he announced that Live It Up would be the single. I think it just didn't get a good reaction from people. Maybe they've done private testing and decided that the new song is their best bet at radio play?


However, you can also wait four years and flop tremendously like Christina Aguilera did. Why?

Because her album sucked! Besides, who said that Adam should wait four years?

And, as I said, don't get me started on Kesha. Personally, I don't judge success simply from single sales. (Or from Grammys. I don't care what the Grammy folks say, "Say, Say, Say" just sucks, sucks, sucks. Mayer can play the guitar, but I don't think it's a good thing if Lee's singing is being compared to Mayer's. And I really hope it's not the songwriting that is causing the comparison.) What the heck happened to Lee's roots rock album and the comparisons to Dave Matthews and Ray LaMontagne?

And I think there's room for more than just Bruno Mars on the male pop scene. But, if you think that Adam's career would be in danger if he waited more than eighteen months to release a new album, you must think Jason Mraz has destroyed his career. It's been over two years and we haven't had a single released by him in well over a year. And he's even older than Adam.

cailuj365
10-13-2010, 06:14 PM
Does Jason Mraz look like a dance pop artist to you? Does Adam Lambert look like he could just play guitar and write a hit like "I'm Yours" to you? The answer to these questions is "no." Allskate, your favorite artists are not in the pop music scene, and you're trying to judge how commercial pop artists, which make their money and gain fans by making the most superficial of melodies and beats and lyrics, should work by comparing them to HAC and AAA artists, who are completely opposite of that mindset, work and how record companies handled pop artists ten years ago.

This is American Idol and this is RCA/Jive. Why do you think Crystal Bowersox has been having so many problems and getting upset. I know that you know very well that it's because they're not in the music business for the same reasons.

Also, I just listened to "Sweet Serendipity." Lee is not a good enough/not the right singer for this song. It requires a John Mayer type of phrasing, and it sounds wrong in his voice, especially because he sounds like a huskier Gokey with a touch of a Daughtry growl. Also, the song is a tad too fast so all the lyrics run together. It has its best chance on HAC, but I doubt it's going to work on CHR/POP.

ETA: Also, Jason Mraz has already released three studio albums as well as several other acoustic albums and EPs. He's hardly a new artist, and "The Remedy," his first major hit, happened when he was 25. For a singer-songwriter like Jason, age is less significant. For someone who is trying to make it in commercial pop where it's all about being young, sexy, cool, age is very important. Your favorite artist Kesha has a track on her album called "Dinosaur" with these eloquent lyrics of "D-I-N-O-S-A-U-R are a dinosaur! You're just an old man, hittin on me, wut?! You need a CAT scan!"


Personally, I don't judge success simply from single sales. (Or from Grammys.
Well, guess who does: record labels, radio stations, and the media. And I suspect Adam Lambert as a new artist does too. And if fans of David Archuleta want him to stay on Jive, they're looking at these factors too.

And I never said eighteen months between album release dates was a problem. I'm saying that eighteen months between any type of radio/TV exposure is a problem. If RCA doesn't release another single for Adam now (and IIHY is now dropping fast) and waits eighteen months to do so with just an okay single like Archie has, then he's going to have major problems.

Kruss
10-13-2010, 07:37 PM
I just listened to Sweet Serendipity once, and the damn thing is already stuck in my head. It’s an earworm, but not in a good way.

Very much to me like Hey Soul Sister (which I hate) gets into my head despite my best attempts, where only Papa Roach or something like that will eradicate it from my brain.

I tried. I’m sorry, but I tried being open. But the autotune drives me nuts, and it’s really just this poppy peppy song that doesn’t make a statement like, “Here I am, it’s my first single, therefore my first intro to the music world that didn’t watch Idol.” It’s just blase IMO.

Allskate
10-13-2010, 07:50 PM
Does Jason Mraz look like a dance pop artist to you?

Rhetorical question? :lol:


Does Adam Lambert look like he could just play guitar and write a hit like "I'm Yours" to you?

Not like "I'm Yours," but that doesn't mean he doesn't want artistic input. Usher, Gaga, Katy Perry, and plenty of others write their own material. And Katy Perry was able to be off the radio for quite some time and come back with tons of radio play. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this idea that Adam has to immediately release an album, regardless of quality, or his career will be over. Also, if the pop world thinks he's too old and he wants some longevity in this business, then maybe he can transition into music more along the lines of Muse or The Killers. But, I guess it's possible he views things the way you do and thinks his career will be over when he reaches 30, so he has to release as many albums as possible before then. That would be sad. :(


Well, guess who does: record labels, radio stations, and the media. And I suspect Adam Lambert as a new artist does too.

Well, rushing out a crap album isn't necessarily a good way to get those singles sales. Also, I think those corporate interests also care about album sales, not just single sales. And they care about profits (which includes costs, not just sales). I also suspect that Adam cares about a lot more than singles sales. I think he cares about whether he likes the music he's singing, has creative input and control, and has career longevity. If I'm wrong, then that's a shame. It's not all about getting a bunch of singles sales right now. And, as I've said, I so don't give a rip about Kesha and her path to success -- even if she ends up with an armful of Grammys. Ten years from now she'll be a has-been. She's no GaGa or Madonna or Pink. And I so don't care if she thinks a guy is a dinosaur. I don't think Adam is just focusing on teens and I think it would be a mistake if he did.



Also, I just listened to "Sweet Serendipity." Lee is not a good enough/not the right singer for this song.

We found somthing we agree on! This is not very Lee at all. Not lyrically or musically. I also can't see him looking comfortable singing this song. (Not that he usually looks all that comfortable.) I hope the rest of the album is more like his previous music and more like the description in the press release. But, I'm guessing that this music choice was aimed at a particular radio audience and at fans of the poor paint salesman. How nice that the salesman doesn't have to wear old jeans anymore because someone is watching over him. (And somehow that's "serendipity?" The lyrics don't make a lot of sense.) I think I see a magic rainbow over there! It's like the Script met "Say, Say, Say" with a touch of "Jesus Take the Wheel." I wonder how Lee feels about this choice. I also wonder if there might be yet another change of the single in the next day or so. There must be better songs (even radio-friendly) on the album.

cailuj365
10-13-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm feeling like you're not comprehending what I'm saying. What do Usher, Katy Perry, Gaga, Madonna, Pink, and Kesha all have in common? Huge success right off the bat. They can gain even more artistic control than they already have because they have the sales and now the fanbase to back that up. They can afford to go away for awhile, because radio will welcome them back with open arms. When you're a new artist, you don't have that as much and your record label will take over more control. To have a long career in pop, you need to establish yourself early. The more hits you have in the beginning, the more leeway you get later on. Even Enrique Iglesias, who's like 35, could release "I Like It" because 1) he's a household name with huge singles in the past. More importantly however, it was tied to Jersey Shore and featured the rapper Pitbull.

Whoops, ended up hitting "Post" instead of the enter button.

But like I said earlier, Usher, Gaga, Kesha, Pink, and now Katy Perry are making sure that they KEEP themselves on the airwaves, either by continuing to release singles from one album or releasing new music from new EPs/albums. Katy Perry went away for awhile, but she came back with a great song for the summer California Girls and oh yeah, it had a rhythmic feature (Snoop Dog) to help her get rhythmic airplay. They don't even let their old singles fade before releasing new ones. Also, I have a feeling that Adam is not the most accomplished songwriter. He rivals with the best of them in terms of voice, but his ability to write a hook has not been demonstrated, unlike Katy Perry or Gaga.

Anyway, even Jason Mraz knows about the problems of having just one big single. He stuck it out, thankfully, but could you imagine if he DIDN'T come up with "I'm Yours?" I didn't even know he was making music because the last I had heard of him was in middle school. His second album was a flop, and "Wordplay" is all about him being called a one-hit wonder and how he's been forgotten and his record label isn't supporting him and that he has to "gotta find a way to keep from going under." Once he released something awesome (again, GOOD MUSIC WILL HELP YOU), then he was all set.

And did I say that Adam would be a dance pop artist FOREVER? No. I said that's what he wants to do for his next album. And if he wants to do that, he should get it out soon while dance pop is still hot and it's still believable for him to do it. I think Adam would be wise to evolve into something more rock later on. I think we'd all like to hear that from him, but maybe he'll go into musical theatre or acting, I don't know.

If you want to be a POP artist, you need to be popular with the teen or 20-something crowd. You can be popular with other groups as well, but you need to have at least that. Ratethemusic surveys for pop focus on the 14-30 crowd and throw out the results for people older or younger. Pop radio DJs are more likely to listen to what a 21-yo is requesting than someone who's 58. Adam has been way more successful in other countries because he captured those groups of people. An RCA official has actually said this.

And I don't even know what you object to so much with his timeline. You suggested that it's better if he comes out with a new single in May so he can debut it on AI, and I said that I think this is the plan.