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Prancer
12-20-2010, 06:36 AM
The jury took it personal instead of using their brains to look at good gameplay.

Juries always do. That's the challenge of the game--to vote people out while not making them so mad that they won't vote for you at the end.

I think this is the vote tally:

Fabio: Purple Kelly, Dan, Marty, Benry, Na Onka

Chase: Brenda, Alina, Jane, Holly

Ares
12-20-2010, 06:45 AM
^ :blah: I was hoping the quitter votes would have offset eachother to not make a difference in the end.

Wow, who would have thought NaOnka would ever give Fab her vote?

genevieve
12-20-2010, 07:14 AM
I'm glad that Fabio won, but this was one of the worst seasons of Survivor in a long time. Casting was bad, editing was inexcusable, and whatever that silly Wand of Power they had at the beginning was stupid (Jeff didn't even bring it up in reunion, so I'm guessing they won't do it again).

normally jeff uses the last minute or two to ask fluff questions to the 2 people or so that don't get any reunion airtime - this time there were three survivors who didn't say a word (Jill, Tyrone and I think Purple Kelly - although she's so forgettable she might have said something), and instead Jeff plays out the show with a bunch of handshakes, after already throwing a ton of filler our way in the form of Jimmy T's football crony, Chase's awful song and YET ANOTHER opportunity to pimp the biggest reality competition famewhore ever :blah:

for me the most interesting part of the finale is Final TC. I will begrudgingly admit that Chase really came to the final TC to win. Too bad the rest of his game wasn't as sharp. I'm relieved he didn't win though, because even he admitted after it was over that he was one big wishy washy player (contrary to his arguments during TC). He's the anti-Amanda - he plays for shit and then pulls it together at final TC :lol: turns out neither strategy works though.

I thought Sash was hot and cold at final TC. He had the right idea - trying to separate the game from the personalities - but he didn't go far enough with it (especially when we learned later that Brenda was full of crap), and he spent way too much time apologizing. The "it's a game" angle really only works if you don't give in to trying to make nice at the same time. I thought people were unnecessarily harsh on sash even when he had good answers - makes sense that people hated him and were never going to vote for hime no matter what he said.

fabio really didn't do a great job in Final TC, but it was enough. Congrats to him.

Sash looked great at reunions and holly - :eek: I normally think the woman look better on the island than at reunion but Holly looked amazing!! total MILF!!

Do we have any inside info on whether next season will have Russell/Rob? They were both there and I can't imagine Jeff would have passed up a chance to pimp their involvement, but I really don't want to watch them again. At least not for another 3 or 4 seasons.

Squibble
12-20-2010, 07:46 AM
I have a question mark in the editing of Sash. Did Jane take her story that Prancer mentioned to the jury house(about Sash promising to pay her mortage if he won) and turn them all against Sash? Because I didn't see in the show anything to deserve that level of contempt. Jeff himself asked Sash just then why he didn't give his idol to Brenda and she points out she was plotting against him the day before and he found out. How could Jeff not know that? Why leave something that important out and make it seem like Sash selfishly kept his idol and voted her out? So did they edit Sash in a way to explain him getting zero points to keep the real issue out of the spotlight?

There seems to be something about Sash that rubs people the wrong way. Jeff Probst has said he though Sash would be the first person voted off. It's true he backstabbed and formed multiple alliances, but so did Chase and Brenda. Ostensibly,


it was clear that people did. not. like. Sash and considered him a real weasel

I hate to say it, but I think that this was what was going through people's minds:


For the longest time I thought Sash was gay, then it turns out he isn't.

Let me make it clear here, that I don't think Allen means anything at all bad by this. However, I think that contestants' incorrect perceptions of Sash as a closeted gay man or as somehow "unmanly" colored how they viewed him.

Shannon, as we all know, was impelled to ask Sash about his sexuality at Tribal Council. Brenda said at one point that Sash and she were like the King and Queen of Survivor, except that she was the king and he was the queen. One of the female contestants (I'm pretty sure it was Alina) said in an exit interview I read that all the women thought at first that Sash was gay. It's a small step from thinking someone is unmanly to thinking he's a weasel.

Frankly, if this is how people felt about Sash, it's disgusting. But I'm afraid it's how they really did feel.

That's just my two cents. I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this.

BaileyCatts
12-20-2010, 09:42 AM
Lame question again ...... what did Jeff say about the rule change if people quit in the future? Was it something like "if you quit, we can do whatever we want when that happens"?? So we really don't know WHAT they will do until/unless someone quits in future games?

Bostonfan
12-20-2010, 12:31 PM
The new season will be that when you are voted out, you will go to Redemption Island. Next person comes there. The two will fight it out physically for redemption, they get to go back in the game.

I thought that once you are voted off, you go to R.I. Then the next voted off person comes and duels. Whoever wins, he/she continues to stay at R.I. to duel with the next person voted off and so on, always leaving one person on R.I. until a certain point in the game when that sole person is allowed back in the game. Probably at the point at which it's time to vote out the person that will become the 1st member of the jury. I didn't get the impression that the person gets to come back into the game immediately after winning a duel with another ousted tribe member.

So which is it? Does anyone know?

Bostonfan
12-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Lame question again ...... what did Jeff say about the rule change if people quit in the future? Was it something like "if you quit, we can do whatever we want when that happens"?? So we really don't know WHAT they will do until/unless someone quits in future games?

Exactly. I see why they have to keep it ambiguous this way, so as to make any necessary adjustments along the way. The threat of being sent home may be all the incentive anyone needs to keep people from quitting.

I never understood the whole quitting thing. Can't you just convince people that you're at the end of your rope and ask them to vote you out?

Prancer
12-20-2010, 12:39 PM
There seems to be something about Sash that rubs people the wrong way. Jeff Probst has said he though Sash would be the first person voted off. It's true he backstabbed and formed multiple alliances, but so did Chase and Brenda.

Jeff thought that Sash wouldn't make it because he thought Sash had a big chip on his shoulder about race--something I don't think we saw in the game aside from his early idea of making an alliance of minorities.

I think the main problem with Sash is that he comes across like a salesman (which he is)--all insincere bonhomie with his eyes always probing for weaknesses he can take advantage of. It's not just that he backstabbed and made multiple alliances; it's that he was devious even when he didn't need to be, which would indicate a certain relish for deceit.

Did YOU think his apologies at the final tribal council were sincere? I sure didn't, and that alone would have been a big turnoff to me if I had been on the jury.


Let me make it clear here, that I don't think Allen means anything at all bad by this.

I should hope not :lol:


Frankly, if this is how people felt about Sash, it's disgusting. But I'm afraid it's how they really did feel.

If something like that was on people's minds, I would think the issue would be not on his manliness or lack thereof, but on his honesty.

Tribe: We think you are gay.
Sash: I have had more beautiful women than you can shake a stick at.

If they all thought he was gay, then they would consider that a lie. And it would have been one of the first things they thought about him--that he lied about who he was. And then he went on in the game to lie repeatedly, thus confirming for everyone that early impression that he is inherently dishonest.


Lame question again ...... what did Jeff say about the rule change if people quit in the future? Was it something like "if you quit, we can do whatever we want when that happens"?? So we really don't know WHAT they will do until/unless someone quits in future games?

Pretty much.

victorskid
12-20-2010, 01:00 PM
I thought that once you are voted off, you go to R.I. Then the next voted off person comes and duels. Whoever wins, he/she continues to stay at R.I. to duel with the next person voted off and so on, always leaving one person on R.I. until a certain point in the game when that sole person is allowed back in the game. Probably at the point at which it's time to vote out the person that will become the 1st member of the jury. I didn't get the impression that the person gets to come back into the game immediately after winning a duel with another ousted tribe member.

So which is it? Does anyone know?

What you described above is how I understood it - the one person who managed to still be on Redemption Island after each of the successive individual challenges had been played out would, at a certain time, be brought back into the game. It might turn out to be the very first person who arrived (because they had managed to defeat each of those who came along to join them through the game) or the person just voted out at the previous Tribal Council who managed to beat whoever was on RI when they arrived there.

my little pony
12-20-2010, 01:01 PM
it sounds like one of the many RW/RR challenges

sk8pics
12-20-2010, 01:32 PM
Well, what a :yawn: and :blah: ending to a weak season. I was surprised that Sash got no votes because I also thought he was the most strategic player left. Chase should have pissed everyone off with his paranoia and running around lying to everyone. And Fabio is just dumb. Or totally out of his mind. I don't know what I would have done if I had been on the jury but the idea of Fabio winning is just amazing to me and almost makes me want to give up watching Survivor. I wonder if his emotional response to talking about his mom swung some votes? They showed several jury members wiping tears away. And Jane was just scary in the final TC. She still strikes me as just mean. And she is America's favorite? :blah: Maybe people felt sorry for her and respected her survival skills.

I give Fabio 3 months before he runs through all the money. And then he'll probably end up bankrupt because he'll owe the IRS still more money and he won't even realize it.

And Na.... still crazy, too. She did sound a tiny bit more with it when she talked at the reunion show but I'm not sorry to have her gone from my TV.

Jenny
12-20-2010, 02:58 PM
I actually think he looks a lot like Ilia Kulik with that haircut.

I thought the same thing!


i have no idea what he just said but it took forever

Fabio was totally inarticulate, but I have to hope it was just the excitement of the moment, and that he has a lot going through his head right now.

The reference he made to music and cultures around the world is for real - there was an article near the beginning with an interview from his sister, and that's what he's been studying in college.

He also mentioned his creative family - people like that sometimes have so many ideas and concepts in their head that unless you know them well, they can be hard to follow. They are often also keen observers, which I believe Fabio is.

I never thought he was a genius, but definitely smarter than most gave him credit for, and definitely more in the game than the other players though.

I thought it was lousy that at the end of TC he was accused of being in the dark most of the time, and he didn't get a chance to defend it (assuming TC was shown to us in order). I've always thought that they should get a final rebuttal/summation as is standard in most debate/trial formats.

There's a real art to knowing when to speak up, when to shut up and when to make you moves in Survivor - look how overplaying killed Marty, Brenda, Jimmy T and even Sash in the end. If Fabio didn't know how a vote was going to go down, it's because at that moment he didn't need to, so he laid low - and as such didn't make any enemies and ultimately won the game. And it seems to have gone unnoticed in the rush to the end, but I credit him with getting rid of Holly - she's the only one who could have beat him IMO.




I'm glad that Fabio won, but this was one of the worst seasons of Survivor in a long time. Casting was bad, editing was inexcusable, and whatever that silly Wand of Power they had at the beginning was stupid (Jeff didn't even bring it up in reunion, so I'm guessing they won't do it again).

I'd forgotten all about that! I have to wonder if the Russell/Boston Rob spoiler is still true, but now that that season has been played, it might have fizzled early so they aren't pimping it as they normally would.

In addition to the Wand of Power, the young/old thing pretty much didn't play out either, and it's only because Jane and Fabio were so important in the end did he bring it up at all.


normally jeff uses the last minute or two to ask fluff questions to the 2 people or so that don't get any reunion airtime - this time there were three survivors who didn't say a word (Jill, Tyrone and I think Purple Kelly - although she's so forgettable she might have said something), and instead Jeff plays out the show with a bunch of handshakes, after already throwing a ton of filler our way in the form of Jimmy T's football crony, Chase's awful song and YET ANOTHER opportunity to pimp the biggest reality competition famewhore ever :blah:

You know I love Boston Rob, but that was completely pointless, along with the extended gushing over Jimmy J, especially now that Prancer shares that story about Jill - I don't think the camera even panned to her once! The other one left out completely was Yvie.


for me the most interesting part of the finale is Final TC. He's the anti-Amanda - he plays for shit and then pulls it together at final TC :lol: turns out neither strategy works though.


Totally! I was really surprised at Chase, and it no doubt got him a vote or two extra in the end. And :lol: re Amanda.


I thought people were unnecessarily harsh on sash even when he had good answers - makes sense that people hated him and were never going to vote for hime no matter what he said.

In hindsight, they really did set him up for the fall - I swear he must've said "I'm in control of this game" about a dozen times throughout the season. But here we have the lame editing again - instead of really giving us insight into his gameplay and the reactions of others too it, we saw only three dimensions - his multi-alliance making (and as others have said, that's certainly not a crime in itself in Survivor), his friendships (we actually did see a lot of that), and his private cockiness. Clearly there was more going on, and I'm glad Brenda jumped in to point out such a glaring omission from the edit.

(Also noticed that when Holly got voted out, her name had not come up once - they had set it up to be either Chase or Dan, so that came out of nowhere - hello Survivor we like surprises, but they need to make sense.)


and holly - :eek: I normally think the woman look better on the island than at reunion but Holly looked amazing!! total MILF!!

Again ITA! I thought she was looking great during the game - better than any of them - and happily looked just as great with her Ponderosa then studio makeup.

I honestly thought she'd win the hundred grand, especially after Jane became so bitter and petty at the end.

And on behalf of the 40+ crowd, I'm distancing myself from Dan, Jane and Marty who were very immature in their final remarks. They could learn a thing or two from the youngest player to ever win the game.

Squibble
12-20-2010, 03:38 PM
If they all thought he was gay, then they would consider that a lie. And it would have been one of the first things they thought about him--that he lied about who he was. And then he went on in the game to lie repeatedly, thus confirming for everyone that early impression that he is inherently dishonest.

That pretty much sums up my theory. I don't know that anyone is going to confirm that though.

genevieve
12-20-2010, 03:51 PM
...I think that contestants' incorrect perceptions of Sash as a closeted gay man or as somehow "unmanly" colored how they viewed him.
Even without prancer's explanations, I don't think that was the case. I did think, however, that Alina's insistence on giving the million to a "man" and then her complete votegasm over Chase when casting her vote was both :huh: and :blah: I had really liked Alina in the game but at final TC and reunion she came off as stupid as Purple Kelly.


I don't know what I would have done if I had been on the jury but the idea of Fabio winning is just amazing to me and almost makes me want to give up watching Survivor. I wonder if his emotional response to talking about his mom swung some votes? They showed several jury members wiping tears away.
This is where I thought Fabio did such a bad job at TC - he kept interrupting, answering questions that were not addressed to him (especially when he jumped in on the question to Chase about what would you do with the money). Maybe it was poor editing (AGAIN) and the question had shifted to him, since none of the jury seemed to take umbrage at it, but it felt like he kept going "hey, me too!!!!" and the tears, while I'm sure genuine and from sheer exhaustion at that point, came off as strategic. or at least damned convenient.


The reference he made to music and cultures around the world is for real - there was an article near the beginning with an interview from his sister, and that's what he's been studying in college.
I think Fabio showed his youth and enthusiasm with that answer - maybe it's because I went to a college where that kind of idea and enthusiasm would be the norm, but I totally got that he was saying and hope he succeeds, cause it sounds super cool.

I thought it was lousy that at the end of TC he was accused of being in the dark most of the time, and he didn't get a chance to defend it (assuming TC was shown to us in order). I've always thought that they should get a final rebuttal/summation as is standard in most debate/trial formats.
Don't they usually get a closing statement? I didn't even realize they hadn't until you mentioned this.


...I credit him with getting rid of Holly - she's the only one who could have beat him IMO.
Agreed, although I worry that Holly would have totally blown it at TC. She can be as inarticulate as Fabio, and let's face it, that can be overlooked in a young man more than in a middle aged woman.

I really wish she'd made it to the end though, because she engineered getting rid of Brenda, and that really changed the game.



You know I love Boston Rob, but that was completely pointless, along with the extended gushing over Jimmy J, especially now that Prancer shares that story about Jill - I don't think the camera even panned to her once! The other one left out completely was Yve.
:duh: I completely forgot Yve!!! Yeah, at least purple kelly and Tyrone were shown and mentioned by someone else. We even got to see a reaction from Tyrone and I thought he was going to be asked a follow up question. But it's like Yve and Jill weren't even in the game. with so much filler in the reunion that's inexcusable.


(Also noticed that when Holly got voted out, her name had not come up once - they had set it up to be either Chase or Dan, so that came out of nowhere - hello Survivor we like surprises, but they need to make sense.)
I don't know - I totally expected it to be Holly from what we'd been shown. If nothing else, than just because guys always seem to stick with guys if there isn't a strong alliance involved. But I do think fabio made the decision strategically, and like most real strategy this season, we didn't get to see it.

Jenny
12-20-2010, 04:05 PM
I did think, however, that Alina's insistence on giving the million to a "man" and then her complete votegasm over Chase when casting her vote was both :huh: and :blah: I had really liked Alina in the game but at final TC and reunion she came off as stupid as Purple Kelly.

Yeah, I was totally :confused: at that. She's frickin' 23 herself, and a student just like Fabio, so on what planet can she judge who is the real "man"? IMO she's at that age when you suddenly think you've figured out the universe, and she will be proven wrong again and again and again in her life.



he kept interrupting, answering questions that were not addressed to him (especially when he jumped in on the question to Chase about what would you do with the money). Maybe it was poor editing (AGAIN) and the question had shifted to him, since none of the jury seemed to take umbrage at it, but it felt like he kept going "hey, me too!!!!" and the tears, while I'm sure genuine and from sheer exhaustion at that point, came off as strategic. or at least damned convenient.


No one seemed to want to address him or ask questions, so I think he did want to make his points and that's why he kept interrupting - agree though that jumping in about how he's spend the money was way overboard, and a bit out of line.


I think Fabio showed his youth and enthusiasm with that answer - maybe it's because I went to a college where that kind of idea and enthusiasm would be the norm, but I totally got that he was saying and hope he succeeds, cause it sounds super cool.

:respec: Interestingly enough, yesterday's New York Times magazine had an article about how creative thinkers are charging big corporations Major Bucks to help solve problems and take their businesses in new directions - it's people like Fabio, young, fresh, enthusiastic, curious, smart and unafraid who are type they are looking for.


Don't they usually get a closing statement? I didn't even realize they hadn't until you mentioned this.

It's always pissed me off - no trial ever ends without closing arguments, and debates always offer a chance for rebuttal.


I don't know - I totally expected it to be Holly from what we'd been shown. If nothing else, than just because guys always seem to stick with guys if there isn't a strong alliance involved. But I do think fabio made the decision strategically, and like most real strategy this season, we didn't get to see it.

He had been gunning for Holly since Benry got voted out, maybe even earlier. He recognized that she had friends on the jury who she had mothered - and I think the guys only came around in the end when Dan pushed the male/female thing (I think it was Dan). I don't think Chase could possibly have come to that decision on his own, and Sash was so confident in his own brilliance that he imagined he could beat anyone so it didn't matter.