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PeterG
10-14-2010, 05:01 PM
Couple other things - it may be the editing, but I found it frustrating the way all the older players were completely spilling their beans to the younger players.

What else could have happened for people who were in a tribe that would have been picked off one by one (if that tribe had stayed "as is")?

I would have abandoned ship as quickly as possible and then did whatever I could to become part of a new (strong!) tribe. "Should I go collect firewood now?" "Should I go get water for you?" "Should I go collect fruit?" :lol:

Prancer
10-14-2010, 05:18 PM
I remember groaning and rolling my eyes when the show announced that they were going to have an older team and a younger team. And, boy, they really picked some decrepit older members didn't they? I knew it wasn't going to last long.
:rolleyes:

Apparently they did an Old vs. Young edition elsewhere and it was very successful, so when they the cast selections started skewing in that direction, they decided to run with it. The older tribe actually isn't decrepit--fitness-wise, they are in better shape as a group than the young ones. Jimmy J wasn't and Dan clearly isn't, but the rest of them are a bunch of fitness freaks who are really strong. Had the challenges been more physical, they might have done better.

Even the Insider videos aren't very interesting. :blah: Jeff's blog this week is awful.

The spoilers have been interesting and keep saying that things are happening that aren't being shown--for example, the core alliance on the younger tribe had discussed a possible tribal switch and had a plan in place (although they didn't follow it, which might be why it wasn't shown, but it could have been interesting to see how that shook out) and while Na'Onka's breakdown during the rain was real, her continued depression wasn't. She was faking as part of a plan to blindside Tyrone. I'm not sure why the producers are going with the storyline they are--maybe it will make more sense later on.

Jenny
10-14-2010, 05:46 PM
What else could have happened for people who were in a tribe that would have been picked off one by one (if that tribe had stayed "as is")?

I would have abandoned ship as quickly as possible and then did whatever I could to become part of a new (strong!) tribe. "Should I go collect firewood now?" "Should I go get water for you?" "Should I go collect fruit?" :lol:

On the blue tribe, it was 4 to 4, so neither team had the advantage - Holly made the quick choice of abandoning her team for the youngsters. That might have made sense if she was the low one on the older side, but Dan is still in the mix and they had a better chance than ever of getting rid of him based on the "we need a strong team" thinking. However, she's now gone from being low person in an alliance of 4 to low person in an alliance of 5. There was a chick on Brazil whose name I forget, but made it to final 3 by flipping at merge, knowing she'd be low person either way, but that that on a smaller totem pole, she'd go further. For Holly, I don't think this was the right time to make that move.

On the yellow tribe, yes I agree Jane probably made a good move as I said.

For everyone else, now was the time for the subtle game - the one that at least according to the editing, was being played by all the youngsters but Judd, who told Marty about Naonka and the clue, and even that was fairly benign an actually benefited his side by stoking up Marty even more for his imminent fall (I have suspected from the beginning that Judd is smarter than his surfer boy persona would indicate).

IMO merge or mix up is a time to watch, listen, and see if you can put the attention on someone else - not to put yourself in the spotlight as Holly, Tyrone, Jane and Marty all did.

Jayar
10-14-2010, 06:56 PM
But Jenny, Holly was low man on the totem pole in her tribe so she was going to go next from the old tribe. So, if this tribe does well, she is 5th place overall. All she needs to do is to align with 2 of the youngin's at merge, and she's golden. Had she stayed with her retirement home team, she would be the sacrificial lamb in order to buy the older folks some time to pull one or more to their side. Her move made perfect sense to me.

If you can make it to merge, the important thing to remember is that strong moves should always be made with odd numbers. When I get on Survivor, I plan to make my power move at 7 unless I am sure that I am solid in my tribe. Then I make my move at 5. To get rid of the power player on my alliance at 5 allows me to make it to the finale. Just you wait and see! But this is all contingent on me not getting booted first. And that is a very likely scenario.

FiveRinger
10-14-2010, 06:58 PM
If you can make it to merge, the important thing to remember is that strong moves should always be made with odd numbers. When I get on Survivor, I plan to make my power move at 7 unless I am sure that I am solid in my tribe. Then I make my move at 5. To get rid of the power player on my alliance at 5 allows me to make it to the finale. Just you wait and see! But this is all contingent on me not getting booted first. And that is a very likely scenario.

I can't wait to see that! You be sure and let us know if/when you make it. I would love to be able to say I knew you before you won the million! :rollin:

Jenny
10-14-2010, 07:13 PM
But Jenny, Holly was low man on the totem pole in her tribe so she was going to go next from the old tribe. So, if this tribe does well, she is 5th place overall. All she needs to do is to align with 2 of the youngin's at merge, and she's golden. Had she stayed with her retirement home team, she would be the sacrificial lamb in order to buy the older folks some time to pull one or more to their side. Her move made perfect sense to me.

Time will tell, and of course we may be missing quite a bit of interplay.

The way I saw it, Holly was #3 with the older folks, because I thought Dan was still a target and it would have been fairly easy to get the kids to see that he was the deadweight, especially as they are all athletic.

Even if she was #4 on that side, she's now #5 with the kids on her tribe, and even lower at merge when the rest of the kids are back together. If they continue to dominate the game, her days are numbered.

Again, I could be wrong, and as we've seen, everything can change on a daily basis. I'm going a bit by what happened in Brazil, when Erinn (?) left the dominant tribe at merge where she knew she was bottom, and joined the smaller group (JT etc) who went on to win the game. She didn't win, but she got a lot further because of that move.

The other thing that often happens at merge (or half merge like this) is that tribes make the stupid move of getting rid of one of their own while they feel cocky - it happened in Russell's first season as I recall, and might have happened in Brazil with Erinn too. If Holly had stuck it out with the elders, they might have had a draw at TC, or possibly better, and ended up with 4 old vs 3 young and had the upper hand.

Now, if that tribe continues to lose (and they just got rid of one of their stronger members), then it will be easy for the kids to pick off the elders however they choose.

(Of course the previews tell us that it's going to be individual immunity, which I assume means two TCs, but they don't know that.)

Prancer
10-14-2010, 07:37 PM
The way I saw it, Holly was #3 with the older folks, because I thought Dan was still a target and it would have been fairly easy to get the kids to see that he was the deadweight, especially as they are all athletic.

Since Dan voted with the the majority against Tyrone, I am not sure that Holly would have put him on the block, as I think she was the one most likely to have clued him in. I wonder if they have made some sort of side alliance (I have no idea if they have, just speculating). If the youngins brought him in, then they also weren't intending to put him on the block, either.

Dan must be a really likable guy. And in spite of the fact that he, Marty, Jill, Tyrone and Yve were the core alliance on the original old tribe, he didn't seem to have any particular loyalty to Tyrone and Yve, as he both voted against them and neither of them seemed to have a clue it was coming. The chicken thing seemed to really annoy him.

I agree, though, that Holly is not in any kind of solid position, but I don't see her as much of a strategist; she seems more of a person who will make decisions based on how she feels. That might not be a bad thing this season.

Jenny
10-14-2010, 07:58 PM
Since Dan voted with the the majority against Tyrone, I am not sure that Holly would have put him on the block, as I think she was the one most likely to have clued him in. I wonder if they have made some sort of side alliance (I have no idea if they have, just speculating). If the youngins brought him in, then they also weren't intending to put him on the block, either.

I have to wonder if it came through Yve, talking to Alina I think it was. That's the only time they really showed us a bridge between the older and younger in terms of game talk.

I could see where the kids indicated they were voting out Tyrone, and perhaps Yve either knew or checked with Holly, knew it was a done deal, and told Dan.

Too bad they don't show us this stuff, sigh. If there are side alliances, I'd love to hear about it.

One thing that worked very successfully on BB this summer is that there was a strong alliance of 4 from the very beginning that kept itself entirely underwraps until they decided to reveal it very late in the game. (They ditched one member part way through, but that's not the point.) Along the way, each member made side alliances to both conceal their own, and keep tabs on what everyone else was doing. That way, they pretty much controlled the game from start to finish, with all 3 of them making it to the end.

Of course no one on this Survivor would have seen that, but the strategy is so perfect and yet quite simple that I'm surprised no one else has ever thought of it, let alone been able to pull it off.

FiveRinger
10-14-2010, 08:44 PM
Did you guys see this? Tyrone has made some implications that there were racist remarks made by Jill and Holly. Why doesn't this stuff ever end up on camera?

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b205622_survivor_nicaragua_castoff_calls_out.html? cmpid=rss-000000-rssfeed-365-topstories&utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

Jenny
10-14-2010, 09:10 PM
Did you guys see this? Tyrone has made some implications that there were racist remarks made by Jill and Holly. Why doesn't this stuff ever end up on camera?

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b205622_survivor_nicaragua_castoff_calls_out.html? cmpid=rss-000000-rssfeed-365-topstories&utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

Bizarre - there's been no indication that Jill would say something like that, and given her education and working in an ER, you'd think she would know better. Not saying he's lying, but it's odd.

I don't think Holly's remark is at all offensive as he tells it, and calling the race card because Naonka was also on the chopping block is grasping at straws. Each of them was under consideration for very specific reasons that had nothing to do with colour.

smurfy
10-14-2010, 09:23 PM
I think we have to be patient about this season. I have not been bored, but the 2nd episode when all the crazies happened, it has not been as good, so more of a let down since then. I just hope there will be some good payoffs for the season a whole. I think we may already have seen that, with Na/Alina. I would never have guessed that would happen so quickly.
Prancer - re Brenda - she is pretty smart.
There some folks playing the game, just differently.
Interesting about the race thing, so sad. They (Ty & Na) were on the choppping block for opening their mouths. I had really like Tyrone till this episode, but he committed something that is Survivor 101 Do Not Do (be bossy).
Jenny - you are right about this past BB - such a simple strategy, and with Survivor would be great, especially with the tribe reshuffling and they keep it going. Might be a little boring at times like BB was, but to me worth it to see it work.
We did see a small thing back with first All Stars, when Amber and Rob were split up, and Rob said to Lex to watch for his girl. Lex did, but still got booted out. Lex was honoring what he thought was an alliance.
Also the picks for the tribes was interesting. I think these challenges take awhile to get all the instructions and stuff going (hours??), and I always wonder if the folks interact with the other tribe, or just get to see a lot that helps if they are observant.

Jenny
10-14-2010, 09:45 PM
Also the picks for the tribes was interesting. I think these challenges take awhile to get all the instructions and stuff going (hours??), and I always wonder if the folks interact with the other tribe, or just get to see a lot that helps if they are observant.

Indeed - I would have loved some explanation from the captains as to why they picked who they did, as it seemed rather random.

We know that the challenges take hours from that one chick on fans vs faves who had a blog going before they yanked it. I recall she said that they get to walk along the course etc and ask questions of a challenge designer to clarify rules etc. For this immunity challenge, you could see that all the people on the wheels were already wet when they started, so they clearly had a few practice dunks. When they do mazes, we often get an overhead shot that I suspect is a retake, because mysteriously there are never any crew members in those shots (sure, they could have had long lenses or something, but it's easier just to do reshoots).

The other thing was last season's plan to pass off the HII to Russell during a challenge - they would have never planned that if they weren't quite sure they'd get a chance to do it - and from what we see on TV, one might have thought it would be nearly impossible to pull off.

genevieve
10-14-2010, 11:40 PM
I have to wonder if it came through Yve, talking to Alina I think it was. That's the only time they really showed us a bridge between the older and younger in terms of game talk.

I could see where the kids indicated they were voting out Tyrone, and perhaps Yve either knew or checked with Holly, knew it was a done deal, and told Dan.
I thought Yve voted for NaOnka?

Prancer
10-15-2010, 12:07 AM
I have to wonder if it came through Yve, talking to Alina I think it was. That's the only time they really showed us a bridge between the older and younger in terms of game talk.

I could see where the kids indicated they were voting out Tyrone, and perhaps Yve either knew or checked with Holly, knew it was a done deal, and told Dan.

I don't think so; if Yve were going to tell anyone, I would think she would have told Tyrone. Plus when she voted for Na'Onka, she seemed to think that that was the way the vote was going to go.

I think Yve was as out of the loop as Tyrone on that one. Hard to say, though, as Yve is just about the most invisible person on the show.


Bizarre - there's been no indication that Jill would say something like that, and given her education and working in an ER, you'd think she would know better. Not saying he's lying, but it's odd.

The brother comment is a stretch but would depend on context, I'd think. But the Brooklyn comment? :yikes: I dunno, Tyrone, that one is really hard to believe.

Jenny
10-15-2010, 02:20 PM
I thought Yve voted for NaOnka?

Ah, I didn't even notice that. I remember when they used to put a chart of TC votes on the website, so you could go back and check - sadly that is no more.

They don't even sort the teams on the website anymore, which is annoying with so many players right now, and so many they haven't bothered to show us. I'm still not sure if Chase or Benry ended up on the blue tribe, or both. And Prancer's right - Yve is almost invisible, and I don't think the other Kelly has even had a confessional yet. Chase has disappeared too.