PDA

View Full Version : School Fees



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9

PDilemma
08-27-2010, 04:23 AM
I don't know how it's done in the other district, but I believe they use the same grading software mine does; all extra credit is added in a category called Extra Credit and the points simply get added to the total overall. It is never applied to a particular assignment unless it is directly related to a particular assignment. But again, 10 points of extra credit in classes that have 500-1000 points per term has virtually no impact at all.

And I also have to point out that a school district that gets an Excellent with Distinction rating does not have a whole lot of kids who are just sliding by on unearned extra credit, as those ratings are based almost entirely on state assessments.

It depends on the gradebook system. I worked with one that was as you say and with another that you could not create an extra credit category so teachers stuck the points on individual assignments. The impact of extra credit points depends on how the course grades are structured. My classes were always like the examples you cite--around 1200 points by the end of a quarter so that 5 points of extra credit didn't matter. But the math department where I last worked only gave 5 pts per homework assignment for three graded assignments per week. That's 15 points for homework a week--then they offered up to three points of extra credit per assignment which means kids could get 9 points of extra credit a week--over half of the available homework points. Kids were able to work this system to substantially raise their grades.

I never liked giving extra credit. I discovered that the best incentive for high school kids was the "late homework pass"--a coupon that allowed them to turn something in a day late without losing points. They would do about anything to get one of those that was valid for an essay in English class :)

redonthehead
08-27-2010, 04:33 AM
You guys are going to love this............a lady I work with, whose son goes to a very affluent school district (which by the way just got Excellent with Distintion - woo hoo), called the school today beeeeeeeeecause her son came home with a note that said if he furnished "wipes" (Clorox? Lysol? whatever), he would get EXTRA CREDIT!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that not the stupidest thing you ever heard? Adding to a student's average for doing something totally non-grade, education or study-related. She called and told someone in the office, without mentioning her name or the teacher, just the 8th grade he is in. They said they would look into it. Can you imagine - "my grade can go from a C to a B because I brought in Lysol wipes."? Or "if I only would have brought in wipes, I would have gotten enough points to raise my grade."? Such incentive to study, huh? I think that's got to be bordering on illegal or something? Irresponsible?

In elementary school, if I went to PTO, then my kids got a homework pass and a 100 test grade. In middle school if I go to PTO, send germx/kleenex/whatever the teacher asks for, then he gets a 100 test grade. But what's the difference in that and giving them a 100 test grade just for having the teacher's sylabus signed and all supplies brought in by a certain date?

I've always been a parent that has supplied my kid's classrooms with whatever the teacher asked for. One class even to the point that the teacher would write in red ink all caps on the homework sheet that I wasn't allowed to send any because I was the only 1 sending in stuff when she asked for it.


So what is the point of bribery if it doesn't make any difference? Maybe the could write a report about germs and earn points that way.

Because for some kid that needs those extra points it is going to make a difference in our schools. My son refuses to carry in that stuff because it embarrasses him so he doesn't get the extra points. He did take the "test" and have the sylabus signed and all supplies by the due date. But it was because I signed all of them the first night of school and had already bought all the basic supplies.

How I have 2 totally different kids,I mean night and day different so much so even in looks you would think they didn't have the same parents, I haven't figured it out yet!

cruisin
08-27-2010, 02:25 PM
In elementary school, if I went to PTO, then my kids got a homework pass and a 100 test grade. In middle school if I go to PTO, send germx/kleenex/whatever the teacher asks for, then he gets a 100 test grade. But what's the difference in that and giving them a 100 test grade just for having the teacher's sylabus signed and all supplies brought in by a certain date?

Is PTO the same as PTA? I'm guessing it is. How did they get the 100 test grade? Was that regardless of what their actual grade was/is or is it that they would get a few points up to 100?

Aceon6
08-27-2010, 03:33 PM
This discussion of extra credit for stuff that the kid can't control is driving me nuts. IMO, extra credit should be given for the CHILD'S extra work, not for something the parent does. I'm a firm believer in extra credit for 1) helping someone else, 2) turning in an assignment early, 3) answering the optional hard questions on quizzes, and 4) doing extra reading. Other than that, sorry, extra credit isn't where it's at.

If they want to reward parents for providing supplies, perhaps give them first choice of teacher conference slots or allow them to schedule a conference on an alternate date.

Debbie S
08-27-2010, 07:55 PM
When I was in elementary and middle school (late 70s-mid 80s), we never got school supply lists in advance. We were given them the first day of school - and if we switched teachers for classes, each teacher usually had his/her own list of what we needed and how they wanted notebooks organized, etc. We were required to bring them in the next day (well, maybe there was a couple days of reprieve). In middle school, if we didn't have our notebooks organized with all requested supplies (dividers, looseleaf paper, graph paper in some cases, with the specified pencils, pens, rulers....) by the second or third day of school (can't remember), we lost points against our grade. Which was a wonderful system for kids whose parents both worked full-time. :rolleyes:

My mom worked part-time, and she made sure to clear her schedule the aftn of the first day of school so we could rush out the minute I got home. And usually we'd have to go to at least 2 places, b/c there would always be something that was out of stock at the first place. And the stores would be a madhouse - and this was before Office Depot and Staples so it was basically drugstores and supermarkets. What a PITA. At least now, parents and kids have several weeks to shop, although we never had to bring in supplies for the classroom.

jeffisjeff
08-27-2010, 08:31 PM
Sort of OT, but why am I asked to get a $3 assignment planner? I understand why an assignment planner is required (although 2nd grade seems perhaps a bit early). But why $3, not $2 or $4? Is a $2.97 assignment planner OK?

Prancer
08-27-2010, 10:05 PM
This discussion of extra credit for stuff that the kid can't control is driving me nuts. IMO, extra credit should be given for the CHILD'S extra work, not for something the parent does.

I actually agree with that; there isn't a whole lot a kid can do if the parent won't cooperate. My daughter got extra credit in two classes for bringing in supplies and in another one because I emailed her teacher to say hello.

I'm a firm believer that extra credit is only fair if it is offered equally to everyone and it always seems to me that this is an option that is only open to everyone on the surface.

But again, in the overall scheme of things, the points don't matter. I have, however, figured out over the years that most of the teachers read parental response to this as a sign of the parents' interest and involvement in their children's education. Which is pretty funny, as the kids often never mention this; I found out I was supposed to send the email when I looked to see if grades and assignments were online yet and asked. My son never says anything about it because he figured out several years ago that the points don't matter and so he doesn't see the point.


At least now, parents and kids have several weeks to shop, although we never had to bring in supplies for the classroom.

That used to be the case for me, but alas--in high school, individual teachers give out their lists in the first week of school.


Sort of OT, but why am I asked to get a $3 assignment planner? I understand why an assignment planner is required (although 2nd grade seems perhaps a bit early). But why $3, not $2 or $4? Is a $2.97 assignment planner OK?

:lol: Planners/agendas are provided by the schools here, and thank goodness. I once spent about a week trying to find a blue portfolio folder with a clear cover, two pockets, and some other requirement. I never did find it. And oh, how I seethed. Why did it have to be BLUE? I found it in red and green--and I finally bought the green and the world did not end.

I figure the three dollar thing means that you will find a specific planner for that price; it will stop you from buying the $50 planner with the leather cover and the gold leaf lettering, which some parents are inclined to do.

jeffisjeff
08-27-2010, 10:17 PM
Why did it have to be BLUE? I found it in red and green--and I finally bought the green and the world did not end.

Hopefully the world won't end when my daughter shows up with her purple-and-white composition notebook, rather than the prescribed black-and-white! She just had to have it! :lol:


it will stop you from buying the $50 planner with the leather cover and the gold leaf lettering, which some parents are inclined to do.

:wideeyes:

Susan1
08-27-2010, 10:18 PM
This discussion of extra credit for stuff that the kid can't control is driving me nuts. IMO, extra credit should be given for the CHILD'S extra work, not for something the parent does. I'm a firm believer in extra credit for 1) helping someone else, 2) turning in an assignment early, 3) answering the optional hard questions on quizzes, and 4) doing extra reading. Other than that, sorry, extra credit isn't where it's at.

If they want to reward parents for providing supplies, perhaps give them first choice of teacher conference slots or allow them to schedule a conference on an alternate date.

I have to agree with that. That was kind of my point. Why would I want to take whatever supplies for the classroom for extra credit if it was so small it would not affect my grade anyway?

Side note (people's comments remind me of stuff!) - in Accounting class in high school, we had extra credit questions at the end of tests. But, they were fun questions (only worth a point or two if I recall). Every time I hear a certain song by Elton John (dating myself big time here), I remember that one of the questions was - What did Levon sell? Answer - cartoon balloons!!!!

And continuing on with the Accounting theme - in college (community), I missed getting an A by 2 points because we got 2 points every Monday for turning in 2 questions that should be on the Friday test. I was out with a bad sunburn one Monday and did not get to turn my questions in. And he DID NOT round up my grade!!! You could not make it up by turning in four questions the next week. That was the point of making up the questions - to see what you thought should be tested from what you learned. I know, I could have gotten two points worth of answers right on any quiz or test and got enough points for the A, but I did not.

Funny, two different accounting teachers years apart, and they both did extra credit things.

Prancer
08-28-2010, 12:16 AM
I have to agree with that. That was kind of my point. Why would I want to take whatever supplies for the classroom for extra credit if it was so small it would not affect my grade anyway?

People do not think these things through.

An example: I took a class in college with total course points of 1000. Each homework assignment was worth five points. For our first homework assignments, the professor assigned us to do two questions out of the textbook. When I got to the next class, everyone else was red-eyed and yawning, as they hadn't slept in two days trying to get the questions done--and not one person had even come close to finishing. Someone asked me how much I got done and I told them I hadn't done anything because I wasn't about to do that much work for a maximum of 10 lousy points out of 1000. You should have seen everyone else's faces when that sunk in--not one person had considered this.

I am always amazed at how inefficiently most students go about the business of being students. I have an "extra credit question of the week" in one of my classes; it's worth anywhere from three to seven points, depending on how challenging it is. And some students will neglect their other assignments, which are worth a whole lot more, chasing down the question of the week because it's extra credit. When I explicitly explain the problem with this sort of thinking, I get "Oh. I never thought of that. Do you have the points posted somewhere?"

:wall:

Another example--I allow student to revise papers and resubmit them; the only time limit on this is that the revisions must be submitted by the penultimate class. Students will pour all their time into revising a paper to submit right away because they can't stand having that bad grade rather than putting their time into writing their next paper and doing revisions when they have extra time, thus earning them a poor grade on the next paper, thus ensuring another revision.

Tell a student there will be a test on a day a paper is due and the student will automatically neglect the paper in favor of studying for the test, because it's a TEST. Never mind that the paper is worth 40% of their final grade and the test a mere 10%; it never occurs to them to look.

Some of them figure it out eventually; a lot of them never do. And these are adults, not kids. They're not stupid people; they are just locked into a particular mindset.


Hopefully the world won't end when my daughter shows up with her purple-and-white composition notebook, rather than the prescribed black-and-white! She just had to have it! :lol:

:shuffle: Some teachers do make a fuss. No one ever has with me, but I've heard some stories--and not just from parents, but from a couple of teachers who get all worked up because parents can't follow directions and now all the other little girls are upset because THEY want purple books, too. Well, too bad. I have absolute faith that they'll get over it.

And yeah, there are parents who will buy the designer whatever just because. Those planners get beat all to heck, too. But junior has the BEST and that's what important.:P

Anita18
08-28-2010, 12:41 AM
People do not think these things through.

An example: I took a class in college with total course points of 1000. Each homework assignment was worth five points. For our first homework assignments, the professor assigned us to do two questions out of the textbook. When I got to the next class, everyone else was red-eyed and yawning, as they hadn't slept in two days trying to get the questions done--and not one person had even come close to finishing. Someone asked me how much I got done and I told them I hadn't done anything because I wasn't about to do that much work for a maximum of 10 lousy points out of 1000. You should have seen everyone else's faces when that sunk in--not one person had considered this.
My bf is especially good at rationalizing this stuff. To him, it isn't worth the effort to chase down the cheapest station for gas that's cheaper by 5 cents/gallon. He can do these calculations in his head (while driving :lol: ) as to how little he'd really be saving.

Personally, I realized how stupid it was to hoard "forever" stamps at the cheaper price because I'd only be saving 40 cents a book. :P

Yeah, it's really all about wording and perception.

redonthehead
08-28-2010, 04:43 AM
Is PTO the same as PTA? I'm guessing it is. How did they get the 100 test grade? Was that regardless of what their actual grade was/is or is it that they would get a few points up to 100?

Yes PTO is the same as PTA. If I went to PTO and signed in on the homeroom teacher's room sheet then they got a 100 that went in the grade book as a test grade and a homework pass for that night. Not extra points to be added to a test.


Hopefully the world won't end when my daughter shows up with her purple-and-white composition notebook, rather than the prescribed black-and-white! She just had to have it! :lol:



:wideeyes:

All a friend's little girl asked for when they were buying school supplies was 2 packs of pretty pencils. The list wanted 2 packs of yellow #2 pencils. So, they bought both and just put a few pretty ones in her pencil box. The teacher took them up and told her that she couldn't have them so don't bring anymore. The next day she went in and told her that her mom wanted her pencils back and she gave them to her. But she told her not to bring anymore for the rest of the year.

numbers123
08-28-2010, 03:36 PM
I am not a teacher, but maybe their extra credit offer for students completing things like. Parents contacting teacher with emails or other communication methods is directly correlated to a performance standard for them (ie extra credit)

Really
08-28-2010, 04:57 PM
Extra credit for non-academic things that shows up in any way, shape or form on any grade calculation is a farce and says absolutely nothing about the students' achievement. Extra credit for academics is almost as bad. Either assess it and have it part of the grade, or don't.

KCC
08-28-2010, 06:14 PM
Personally, I realized how stupid it was to hoard "forever" stamps at the cheaper price because I'd only be saving 40 cents a book. :P



For me, forever stamps are not about saving 40 cents, but about not having to mess with one and two cent stamps.