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essence_of_soy
08-22-2010, 08:46 AM
Something that both horrified and astounded me was a few years ago, a popular Australian magazine held a readers' beauty competition for 'plus sized' women.

When the photos were published, 90% of the entrants fell within a healthy BMI range.

How others can shape our self perception sometimes can be a dangerous thing indeed.

snoopy
08-22-2010, 12:49 PM
But not all men are like this. In fact, I don't think most men are that picky. Maybe I just don't hang with those types of guys. :lol:

Genetically, ITA. I think different guys like different types of women. What I think happens often though is that some guys are worried what their friends think, or what their society at large might think. So they choose a woman that they think will impress other people even if she is not to his true taste.

*Jen*
08-22-2010, 12:51 PM
She's not fat, by any normal standard. But, by typical runway model standards she is. It is truly sad and really screws up young women, when someone that lovely is called fat.

The article called her "full figured" as well as plus sized. IMO, fuller figure is a better description. She's not plus sized and she's not fat, but she is curvy. I think she looks great :)


I also get :confused: when I see plus sized models who are a US size 12. That is not plus size. Not even literally. Plus size does not even start below size 16.


It's all relative. That might be the case in the US, but in Australia, plus size starts from a 16 which is a US 12, and while not morbidly obese, it is a larger size. Plus size in Europe starts from 42, which is also a US 12. With the average size so much smaller in Europe than in the US, US 12 does seem plus size to them.

Holley Calmes
08-22-2010, 12:54 PM
Genetically, ITA. I think different guys like different types of women. What I think happens often though is that some guys are worried what their friends think, or what their society at large might think. So they choose a woman that they think will impress other people even if she is not to his true taste.

I agree. I remember back some years ago, a study was published ranking how different men were perceived by total strangers based purely on photos. They showed ugly men with ugly wives/girlfriends. They showed good looking men with good looking women. Etc.-all the variations.

The male that most people found the least likely to be successful was the good looking guy with the ugly female. The average looking guy with the good looking woman scored highest. I'll try to find that somewhere....

This is interesting:

http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/05/cx_sr_0505bizbasics.html

cruisin
08-22-2010, 02:34 PM
Psh, runway models are freaks and that entire industry is ridiculous. I'm clearly underweight and I'm still pretty sure I would be told to lose another 10 lbs off my thighs to do runway. :lol:

Sadly, many of them are ill, because they are not naturally that thin. When I was in my mid 20's I weighed about 118 at 5'10, and I was chubby compared to many of the models I worked with and had come in for go sees.


I feel that being emaciated isn't enough either - you have to be emaciated AND have curves. :rofl: Nobody can win, aside from the women surgery-ed up like Barbie.

Yes, a tooth pick with boobs.


The article called her "full figured" as well as plus sized. IMO, fuller figure is a better description. She's not plus sized and she's not fat, but she is curvy. I think she looks great :)

Full figured is a nicer way to say it. But most women recognize it as code for overweight. Size 12 is not.


It's all relative. That might be the case in the US, but in Australia, plus size starts from a 16 which is a US 12, and while not morbidly obese, it is a larger size. Plus size in Europe starts from 42, which is also a US 12. With the average size so much smaller in Europe than in the US, US 12 does seem plus size to them.

The thing is that size 12/14 is pretty average and not overweight. Size 0/2 is not natural for most women over 17. In order to be at that weight, they have to make a serious effort. Not saying all do and not saying necessarily eating disorder, but it is not natural. It is also hard to gauge sizes from US to Australia to Europe. US sizes have changed in the past few years. It seems the smaller sizes have gotten bigger and the larger sizes have gotten smaller. As size 2 became more like a 4, 4, like a 6, they added sizes 0, 00, 000. As to S, M, L. Smalls are more like mediums, and larges are also more like mediums. I find it hard to think of a European 12 as plus size. I bought a blouse from this British company the other day. Allsaints Spitalfields (weird name) is now being carried in some Bloomingdales. I normally wear a small or a 2/4 on top. I needed a 10 in that brand. I am, in no way, near a plus size, so...

bek
08-22-2010, 03:10 PM
A part of me feels that because women see so many emaciated women as the standard, if it in someways perhaps even encourages obesity. I.e a woman may feel like she'll never be the standard, so gives up completely. I'd much rather see "healthy" treated as attractive for a woman. And healthy doesn't mean arguing that its wonderful for a woman to be 200 plus pounds, but it also doesn't mean arguing its wonderful for a woman to look emaciated.

And can I mention how much I hate the size fluctuations.

*Jen*
08-22-2010, 03:13 PM
I bought a blouse from this British company the other day. Allsaints Spitalfields (weird name) is now being carried in some Bloomingdales. I normally wear a small or a 2/4 on top. I needed a 10 in that brand. I am, in no way, near a plus size, so...

In which case, it's probably a UK 10, which is an EU 36, which is a US...god knows, given how sizes have changed there. I would say 6, but with sizes getting smaller then 2-4 sounds about right.

Spitalfields is an area in London, btw. There is a market there :)
Like I said, it's all relative. I am an EU 38, and I feel like a bigger girl here whereas I'm a normal size, in fact on the smaller side, when I'm in the UK or in Australia. The average size there is a UK 14 and an Aus 14 - so about 12-14 US. I agree that US 12 isn't plus size, especially not the models because they're so tall and seem slimmer than an average person wearing that size.

But if these brands are European, then it is possible that to the designer, 12 seems like a plus size because it's well above the average, and while a size 0 is way too small for most people to maintain, there is quite some difference between a 0 and a 12 ;)

DickButtonFan
08-22-2010, 03:23 PM
I dunno my aunt is about 40s and is a size 0 to 2. It's just natural to some to be thinner but it is rare. Not sure why some men care if a woman is overweight or not, shouldn't they worry about the person their with? Look at how many curvy women were sought after: Marilyn Monroe, Kim k, Rachael welch, none are 0s. I think there's beauty in all sizes from Sasha Cohen to Anna Nicole.

Karina1974
08-22-2010, 04:04 PM
Funny this thread is here. I just came over from another BBS, where one of the topics was (in the Women's Discussion area); Would you rather be intelligent or beautiful. This was what I wrote, in response to another poster talking about how her ex-husband had initially told her he liked "big women" but then, before their divorce, basically admitted that he had settled for her (she says she is morbidly obese) because he had "doubts about his own desirability" and thus felt that a "beauty queen" was out of his reach:


See, this is precisely why I not have a boyfriend, nor do I have any desire to have one, so I don't waste my time worrying about it or trying to "get a man" which some of the more pathetic members of the female sex try to do. I pity them because they truly don't get it. Nor will I entertain the prospect of being with a guy who doesn't have his "stuff" together from a physical, mental and spiritual point of view. You want to go out with me, then you better know exactly who and what you are and either be comfortable in your own skin from all three perspectives, or be full-time committed to changing what it is that you feel needs changing about yourself. I've been doing that for the last few years, and thus, I will not accept anything less from a perspective mate, should he ever show himself.

I don't care about the "standards" that society sets for beauty these days, nor do I care that I don't exactly fit them either. I'm 5'10 and 259 pounds, but I am not flabby either, or have a stomach hanging halfway to my knees, or a double chin, or fingers that you can't see space between when you put them together. I wear a size 16 and, when I go out bike riding (my favorite exercise) I can blitz 5 miles in 24 minutes, and I ride on routes that are hilly (riding flats is boring, nor will it get you in shape!). I can ride 12 miles in the morning, and then go and work up a sweat contra dancing that same evening and be able to get up and walk properly the next morning. Most women my weight can't do that (and sadly most can't handle the discipline to hold to that kind of routine -- 'cause I won't say it's not physically discomforting, or mentally easy to give up the "junk", but that's where the spiritual strength steps in). Most women who weigh 260 will be up in the 20's sizes, clothes-wise.

What is key about me is that I have spent the last few years killing off the insecurities I've held about myself, including my body size (even if I get down to the "magic number" 160 I will still be large in stature -- the closest I've gotten is 190 5 years ago) and figuring out that no, the "eyes of the world" are not all on me when I walk outside my door, nor should I be worried even if they are. Nor should I care.

If the men out there want a "hot bod" for a girlfriend, I say, let them go for that. They'll soon find out that beauty fades but dumb is forever, especially when the pwetty pwincesses start running for the cosmetic surgery to try to fix what isn't even broken.

Buzz
08-22-2010, 04:14 PM
Just from my own personal experiences I have found that men have their preferences and for the moment it is for rail thin bodies, fair hair and skin. And I find that increasingly applying to women as well.

cruisin
08-22-2010, 04:22 PM
In which case, it's probably a UK 10, which is an EU 36, which is a US...god knows, given how sizes have changed there. I would say 6, but with sizes getting smaller then 2-4 sounds about right.

I think they said the UK size 10 was = to a US 6. But US 6 is too big for me, so either this brand runs very small or UK sizes are even smaller compared to US than we thought.


Spitalfields is an area in London, btw. There is a market there :)

I understand but the label says Allsaints Spitalfields, maybe just for the US market?


But if these brands are European, then it is possible that to the designer, 12 seems like a plus size because it's well above the average, and while a size 0 is way too small for most people to maintain, there is quite some difference between a 0 and a 12 ;)

There should be, but it seems there is less and less. And more and more women are being told, via sizes, that they are overweight/plus size, when they are not.


Your post on the other board.

You need to remember that weight is not the defining thing with size. A person who weighs 150 and is not muscular will be bigger than someone who is muscular. You also have to consider bone structure. A large boned person will weigh more than a smaller boned person. A 150 lb., small boned 5'6" person will look heavier than a 150 lb. large boned 5'6" person.

PDilemma
08-22-2010, 04:47 PM
Karina1974--are you implying at the end of your post from the other board that all thin women are dumb? Because that is as stereotypical and offensive as the implication that all bigger women are out of shape that you are arguing against.

*Jen*
08-22-2010, 04:49 PM
I understand but the label says Allsaints Spitalfields, maybe just for the US market?


No, it's the brand (http://www.allsaints.com/womens/) :) I've actually been into one of their shops - cool stuff. UK 10 used to be US 6, but I don't think it is anymore. UK 10 used to be an Australian 10, but it's now an Australian 8 because of the vanity sizing.

Norlite
08-22-2010, 04:59 PM
What is key about me is that I have spent the last few years killing off the insecurities I've held about myself, including my body size


Maybe you can spend the next few years killing off your anger issues.

Then you'll be perfect.

DickButtonFan
08-22-2010, 05:07 PM
Karina1974--are you implying at the end of your post from the other board that all thin women are dumb? Because that is as stereotypical and offensive as the implication that all bigger women are out of shape that you are arguing against.

Yeah I think I better quote would prob be: outer Beauty fades, inner beauty is forever