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shan
08-16-2010, 02:30 PM
I like the idea of juries, but considering that no juries today will have scientists, engineers, or anyone remotely involved in law enforcement, it puts a kink into the actual application of juries in the real world.

:huh:

eta: So they're just smarter at getting out of it? :saint:

cruisin
08-16-2010, 03:14 PM
Defense lawyers don't like scientists or engineers of any kind. We want to know everything, not just what the lawyers feel like telling us. I mentioned the first part during jury questioning and I'm pretty sure that's what got me off. :saint: That was the first thing my mom told me when I was recounting the experience, anyway. :lol:

But it's also arguable that we'd be the best at taking the evidence and constructing an actual story out of it. :lol:

I like the idea of juries, but considering that no juries today will have scientists, engineers, or anyone remotely involved in law enforcement, it puts a kink into the actual application of juries in the real world. :shuffle:

Add that to the numbers of people who get out of jury duty, and the pool is not very diverse.

Satellitegirl
08-16-2010, 03:23 PM
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on the kids on airplanes thing. I flew this past week...2 hr flights each time....one set of parents on one flight had snacks, drinks, and books to keep their kid happy and busy....another was letting the kid play with the tray table and slam it down while squealing high pitched each time. It's all in the planning, parents. The only time I'm sympathetic to a kid crying/screaming on a plane, is if their ears hurt from the pressure or something bad has happened. Otherwise, keep your child busy or make sure you time their schedule so they're sleepy when they get on the plane.

cruisin
08-16-2010, 03:39 PM
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on the kids on airplanes thing. I flew this past week...2 hr flights each time....one set of parents on one flight had snacks, drinks, and books to keep their kid happy and busy....another was letting the kid play with the tray table and slam it down while squealing high pitched each time. It's all in the planning, parents. The only time I'm sympathetic to a kid crying/screaming on a plane, is if their ears hurt from the pressure or something bad has happened. Otherwise, keep your child busy or make sure you time their schedule so they're sleepy when they get on the plane.

Your suggestions are excellent, but the parents who let their children behave that way are not likely to "plan" anything. These are the same parents who blame other children when anything goes wrong, who blame teachers when their kid doesn't do well in school, who basically make excuses for everything. Then they ignore them and get on with their own needs.

I was on a flight once, when a 3 or 4 year old was in front of me. The kid spent an hour slamming the seat back into my knees. Finally, I leaned forward and asked the mother to please stop the child from doing that, as she was hurting my knees. The mother said "We paid for our seats, she can do what she wants". Can you imagine? I called the flight attendant over and asked her to do something, she asked and the mother blew her off. The child continued this for another hour, while the mother called me a bitch. Nice people, huh? Then she'll wonder what went wrong when her kid is in serious trouble as a teenager.

Satellitegirl
08-16-2010, 03:44 PM
Should have just started kicking the back of the parent's seat while saying 'I paid for my seat, I can do what I want' lol

But yeah, I realize that most of the parents with misbehaving children, just don't care enough to plan accordingly.....of course there are rare cases where the kids are just being ornery when they usually aren't like that....but I don't think that's the norm.

cruisin
08-16-2010, 03:55 PM
Should have just started kicking the back of the parent's seat while saying 'I paid for my seat, I can do what I want' lol

But yeah, I realize that most of the parents with misbehaving children, just don't care enough to plan accordingly.....of course there are rare cases where the kids are just being ornery when they usually aren't like that....but I don't think that's the norm.

It's funny, sometimes I see kids misbehaving, and parents doing nothing, and I'm with one of my kids, and my mother somehow gets into my head, and I hear myself saying: You would never have done that, I would never have let that happen! :lol: But I wouldn't ;)

StonewshMullet
08-16-2010, 04:01 PM
My 3 1/2 year old nephew is left to his own devices by his overly indulgent parents. Recently at a fair as he was getting off a rollercoaster he turned around went into the no exit area and turned the coaster back on and almost killed 15 people. My sister-in-law tried to laugh it off but for once my family didn't let her off the hook. We told her that she needed to put that cell phone away or the next time someone will get seriously hurt. I can understand a person getting sick of a screaming kid and wanting to jumpt to safety or in this case slide.

Norlite
08-16-2010, 04:02 PM
*sigh*


Nothing to do with flying, but this has been bothering me since yesterday....

I was in the supermarket yesterday with a family directly behind me in line. mother father 2 boys around 9 -10.

Small store, produce counter not too far from the check out where we were. While in line one boy went to the produce and picked up an english cucumber, the other a pear. they played baseball with them. bat and ball. parents said nothing. Produce guy had to stop them, with a dirty look from parents.

They then picked up the divider between my order and theirs. used it as a bat with something else they had whatever it was. batted this thing into another customers back who was rounding an aisle. Customer not hurt, parents said nothing, cashier had to say "I need that guys"

My order was rang through, theirs was next. While I was packing my things, cashier was opening change into her tray for a second, one boy proceeded to reach around, and start pushing buttons on her keyboard that sort of hung over the belt. Parents said nothing. Cashier had to say, oops, don't touch that now. Boy said "I want to see it" cashier said "sorry, it's just for me" Parents gave her a dirty look and treated her like shit as she rang through their stuff. Threw their money at her when paying. Boys whooped and hollered and banged into other customers all the while. Parents then realized they had to pack their own groceries. Told the cashier that's YOUR job. Cashier said no, sorry ma'am, it's not. Made a spectacle of themselves throwing things into bags and stormed out.

Unfriggingbelievable.

Working with *this* public is why people are on the flight attendant's side in this.

Jenya
08-16-2010, 04:10 PM
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on the kids on airplanes thing. I flew this past week...2 hr flights each time....one set of parents on one flight had snacks, drinks, and books to keep their kid happy and busy....another was letting the kid play with the tray table and slam it down while squealing high pitched each time. It's all in the planning, parents. The only time I'm sympathetic to a kid crying/screaming on a plane, is if their ears hurt from the pressure or something bad has happened. Otherwise, keep your child busy or make sure you time their schedule so they're sleepy when they get on the plane.

I had the worst experience flying about 10 days ago, and it was on a flight that took only about an hour. A family got on the flight with a little girl who was about 2 and her older brother. The flight attendant asked as they were boarding if the kids were okay with flying or if they needed any extra assistance - the parents assured her that they would be fine. Well, before we even took off, the girl started screaming and refusing to buckle her seatbelt. This went on and on, with the mother arguing with the flight attendant that she should be allowed to just hold the daughter and the flight attendant explaining that it was the law. We were over 20 minutes late leaving because this child's mother would not make her sit down and fasten her seatbelt. Finally, she did - and then spent the flight running up and down the aisle, obviously in the way of the flight attendant who was trying to do a beverage service. When it was time for landing, it was even worse - more screaming, more arguing between the mother and the flight attendant. Finally, the flight attendant had to get the pilot to explain to the mother that it was the law and there was absolutely no compromising. The flight attendant helped the mother buckle the screaming toddler in, and then as soon as she turned her back, the mother unbuckled the girl and let her sit on her lap.

I understand that flying with children can be difficult, but these parents were not even trying. In addition, to blatantly disregard a flight attendant's instructions, not to mention those of a pilot, is ridiculous. It was a small plane and everyone was extremely annoyed (and late, due to our late takeoff thanks to this girl) by the time we arrived. I have to give the flight attendant props for keeping her cool and handling it as well as she did, because I would have lost it.

cruisin
08-16-2010, 04:17 PM
*sigh*


Nothing to do with flying, but this has been bothering me since yesterday....

...Unfriggingbelievable.

Working with *this* public is why people are on the flight attendant's side in this.

I know. Here's one that isn't even kids! A few years ago I was on line at a grocery store. This lady ahead of me was buying a few things, she was wearing her full length mink and diamonds the size of peach pits. The girl checking her out was quite young and new. She was moving a little slowly, trying not to make a mistake (there was a sign up at the front of the isle saying, slow, cashier in training). The woman starts yelling at her that she's taking too long. The girl is getting more and more flustered and makes a mistake. The woman calls her stupid. The girl now has tears in her eyes. Well, that was enough for me. I said, excuse me, lady, but apologize to her. The woman looked at me in shock. I said, how dare you speak to her that way, apologize. The woman starts sputtering and saying she's in a hurry. I said, I don't care if you're in a hurry, the girl does not deserve to be yelled at and called stupid. She did apologize, though not very sincerely. And afterward the manager came up to me and thanked me. In front of the cashier, so the cashier knew she wasn't in trouble.

agalisgv
08-16-2010, 05:01 PM
It's all in the planning, parents. Just curious, but are you a parent?

I am, and I've rode many a flight with children of all sorts. Some children travel really well, and some do not. Sometimes you can do things to make it easier, but sometimes there isn't much that can be done.

I've seen parents carry entire playrooms on board only to have the children refuse to play with anything. I've seen parents bring snacks aplenty, and then every morsel chucked by inconsolable toddlers.

In my experience, when children are overtired, one's options can be limited on a plane. And while in theory you would think you can plan a child's sleeping schedule to sleep the entire time, in reality that can be very difficult to do. For one, the boarding process often wakes children who would otherwise be asleep. But also, families are often visiting friends or relatives, and grandma wants to spend all the time she can with her grandbabies before they board the flight. After all, when is the next time she'll see them? And friends just have to have a farewell dinner for their visitors, but of course it's hard to put a baby to sleep in the midst of a dinner party at someone else's house. And then that family gets to board a plane.

Maybe it's me, but I think parents generally try to do their best. I just see a lot of exhausted parents on flights and realize they're about at the end of their rope by the time they get on board.

I just flew back on an international flight a few weeks ago, and the little girl behind was kicking the seat. The mother was clearly exhausted, so I simply turned around to the little girl and said, "Sweetie, don't put your feet on the seats because it hurts people." The girl stopped, the mother said, "Yes, don't do that," and problem solved. The child sitting across the aisle refused to put on his seat belt. The mother tried to get him to fasten it, but she was separated by another child. So I said, "Your mother is right--it's important to fasten your belt". Then I reached over and did it for him. He didn't like that and started fiddling with it, so I just shook my head 'no' don't do that. So he stopped, and his mom thanked me.

Sometimes parents need just a little support instead of a hundred angry stares.
to blatantly disregard a flight attendant's instructions, not to mention those of a pilot, is ridiculous. I wish I had disregarded the instructions of a flight attendant once. I was traveling with my baby on a long flight (about 8 hours). As we were preparing to descend, I began to nurse so it wouldn't hurt his ears. I also hoped it would put him to sleep for the rest of the flight. Well, it worked--he fell asleep nursing and his suckling protected his ears.

But lo, the flight attendant approached and told me to stop nursing, wake him up, and make him sit upright on my lap. My seat belt was already buckled, and my baby was cradled in my arms, but that wasn't good enough. He insisted on waking my baby. I told him he would start to scream if I did that, but the attendant wouldn't leave until he saw he was awake.

Well, sure enough I pulled him away to sit up, and he started to scream bloody murder. And of course, the flight ended up having some delays after that so it was a good long while before the plane finally reached the terminal. The whole time my son kept screaming. I wanted to throttle that flight attendant. All I could do was whisper in my head, "This too shall pass, this too shall pass". And bless those sitting next to me, they did their best to be encouraging the whole time.

I'm not saying there aren't rude people out there--I've seen those too. It's just been my experience they are the exception rather than the rule though.

zaphyre14
08-16-2010, 05:19 PM
It may be true, but it's the exceptions that get all the attention - especially in a closed enviroment like a plane. I've also been on flights where the majority of the children are well-behaved - until one gets unruly, then some of the others try to copy and the whole flight becomes chaotic and miserable for everyone.

FigureSpins
08-16-2010, 05:42 PM
Sometimes parents need just a little support instead of a hundred angry stares.
True, but there are many who get ticked off if you speak to their precious child directly. If it's someone I'll never see again, I'll say something anyway, but if it's anyone you know, watch your back because they'll make a comment about other people "disciplining" their children. Like you're giving them a beating or something. :rolleyes:

I was at JC Penney last week, waiting for my DDs outside the dressing room. A 9-year old walked in with a few things to try on, little sister following with a look like a brewing thunderstorm. All I could think about was how loud that little girl (5 yrs old or so) was going to be when she let loose after the door closed. I looked around, no mother anywhere in sight. So, I jokingly said "Uh oh. Think happy thoughts - there's no crying in the changing rooms." and smiled/winked. The big sister laughed, the little one quieted down.

At least 15 minutes later, the mother came to collect the children, having never checked on them in the meantime. (My kids were in and out five times, sharing a dressing room.)

Her loud comment as she pulled the little girl out of the dressing room: "You're MY child and no one should be telling you what to do. Now stop your crying (she had already stopped) or I'll give you something to cry about."

She told me.
I saw the kid having a major meltdown at the checkout a few minutes later.

Sometimes, they should ACCEPT support and make their own lives easier instead of thinking everyone's criticizing them.

My niece brought a footlocker full of toys for her kids last month, but the little one was teething, so there was no consoling him. She had to give him some pain killer, which knocked him out within minutes from exhaustion and medication. Sometimes, you just gotta get something done and kids refuse to cooperate. I usually try to play peek a boo or just smile silly at the kids, trying to amuse them while they wait on a checkout or something.

Wyliefan
08-16-2010, 05:49 PM
Sometimes, they should ACCEPT support and make their own lives easier instead of thinking everyone's criticizing them.


Well, just as long as you don't actually bang the kids' heads together . . . which a neighbor mom did to my sister and me when we were kids! :) Not hard enough to hurt, thank heaven, but I was mortified. (My sister, on the other hand, just thought it was funny! She thought everything was funny.)

agalisgv
08-16-2010, 06:03 PM
True, but there are many who get ticked off if you speak to their precious child directly. If it's someone I'll never see again, I'll say something anyway, but if it's anyone you know, watch your back because they'll make a comment about other people "disciplining" their children. Hmm, I'll have to take your word on that. The only time I ever had an issue was when I was in the children's hospital and saw this guy yelling at his wife and beating his child. He was in a total rage so I approached and said something like I know it must be hard having a child here, but it's important not to take it out on others. He threatened me and told me to walk away. His wife told him to calm down as I was only trying to help, and he almost backhanded her. I walked away, and watched them. He stopped hitting the child, but under his breath threatened to beat him outside the hospital. I got the security guards at that point.

Other than that, I've never had an issue. And I'll say in my community, it's common practice for people to watch over other people's kids and discipline them, so no one thinks to object to that--at least not that I've witnessed. I try to be more careful around kids I don't know, but like I said, I've not had a problem there either (except for above).
Sometimes, you just gotta get something done and kids refuse to cooperate. Exactly

Some parents believe in medicating kids before a flight to make them sleep while others find that highly objectionable. But the fact is children don't always cooperate with parental plans and schedules. It's a bummer, but it doesn't necessarily mean the parents don't care.