PDA

View Full Version : No more D's in school



Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5

El Rey
08-09-2010, 06:39 PM
I didn't know that. Is that a fairly recent thing?

I graduated 12 years ago and requested an official sealed transcript to see what all was in there. In mine they included a brochure that had all the information about my school. It included racial make-up, grades, percentage of college bound students etc.

PDilemma
08-09-2010, 06:40 PM
I didn't know that. Is that a fairly recent thing?

No idea. But I know that the guidance director at the last school I taught at mentioned a few times that the scale is printed on official transcripts sent for colleges because if it is not a lot of admissions directors will ask for it.

ETA: I think it is best that they do ask because, for example, a B on a lot of the scales posted in this thread would be a C or even a D where I've taught--that totally changes what the GPA means!

Prancer
08-09-2010, 06:43 PM
I understand all of that. I still feel that changing the grading system confuses the process. There really should be a standard system. Obviously there will still be schools that have better reputations, but if the math is the same, it makes the comparison easier.

But that would mean adopting a nationalized curriculum and nationalized teacher training. Even then there will be differences.

I can think of a lot of arguments both for and against nationalizing the process, but I don't know that it's necessary because of grades. Colleges already deal with the grading issue, so unless there is a demand for standardized grading there, I don't think it much matters. After all, if a kid doesn't go to college, high school grades don't really mean much.

My problem with the elimination of Ds is the philosophy that kids will try harder if they can't get by with Ds. That's true for some kids; it's not true for others, but saying so puts the onus on those kids--if they are getting Ds, it's because they aren't working hard enough. In a system that demands that all kids get an education, there will be kids who try really hard and still not get Cs--and this makes it all their own fault.


No idea. But I know that the guidance director at the last school I taught at mentioned a few times that the scale is printed on official transcripts sent for colleges because if it is not a lot of admissions directors will ask for it.

ETA: I think it is best that they do ask because, for example, a B on a lot of the scales posted in this thread would be a C or even a D where I've taught--that totally changes what the GPA means!

To that point, a grading scale is useful, but it really doesn't say anything about what a particular grade means. Without knowing the difficulty or lack thereof of the work being assessed and how that assessment was made, an A doesn't mean much of anything by itself, regardless of grading scale.

agalisgv
08-09-2010, 07:43 PM
To that point, a grading scale is useful, but it really doesn't say anything about what a particular grade means. Without knowing the difficulty or lack thereof of the work being assessed and how that assessment was made, an A doesn't mean much of anything by itself, regardless of grading scale. Exactly

When I said top tier colleges have a ranking system for high schools around the country, it's not based on their grading scales. Rather it's based on the skill sets of the students they graduate. Some schools are so well noted for the quality of their graduates, they have reserved spots at many universities for their students. Changing a grading scale or inflating/deflating grades doesn't affect that reputation for college admissions.

jeffisjeff
08-09-2010, 07:50 PM
My problem with the elimination of Ds is the philosophy that kids will try harder if they can't get by with Ds.

Is that the rationale? (I didn't read the article in the initial post.) If so, then :eek: :eek: to the whole idea. I don't like getting rid of Ds anyway, but that is just a really stupid reason to do it.

I know this isn't the case in high schools, but Ds can serve a real purpose at the university level. Often students cannot count a D grade for a course in their major, but they can for courses outside their major, a distinction which can be useful.

skatingfan5
08-09-2010, 07:57 PM
Is that the rationale? (I didn't read the article in the initial post.) If so, then :eek: :eek: to the whole idea. I don't like getting rid of Ds anyway, but that is just a really stupid reason to do it.

I know this isn't the case in high schools, but Ds can serve a real purpose at the university level. Often students cannot count a D grade for a course in their major, but they can for courses outside their major, a distinction which can be useful.Yes, if it wasn't for a D grade, I would have had to take organic chemistry again to get the credit hours. :shuffle: I dropped it midway through the first time, and twice was more than enough for me! :scream: It wasn't in my major field or even a requirement for my minor, so I was more than happy to survive with the only D of my life.

cruisin
08-09-2010, 07:57 PM
But that would mean adopting a nationalized curriculum and nationalized teacher training. Even then there will be differences.

I don't think it would necessitate a nationalized curriculum. I simply think that if all schools used 93-100=A, 86-92=B... or 90-100=A, 80-90=B..., the GPA would be more comparable. None of that will change a school's reputation, but it would mean that the point value of an A is the same everywhere. Personally, I would advocate losing letter grades completely. I think that numerical on a 100 point scale would work best. Even with standard point ranges an A could = 90 or 100. I'd rather see the actual point values used and there be a cut off for failure.



When I said top tier colleges have a ranking system for high schools around the country, it's not based on their grading scales. Rather it's based on the skill sets of the students they graduate. Some schools are so well noted for the quality of their graduates, they have reserved spots at many universities for their students. Changing a grading scale or inflating/deflating grades doesn't affect that reputation for college admissions.

I don't think changing the scales would make a difference in the schools which are courted or the schools which are considered bottom tier. It is the ones in the middle where it gets mushy. And I see parental manipulation, make my baby feel better, at work here. Which I don't think helps anyone, especially the kids.

cruisin
08-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Is that the rationale? (I didn't read the article in the initial post.) If so, then :eek: :eek: to the whole idea. I don't like getting rid of Ds anyway, but that is just a really stupid reason to do it.

I know this isn't the case in high schools, but Ds can serve a real purpose at the university level. Often students cannot count a D grade for a course in their major, but they can for courses outside their major, a distinction which can be useful.

I agree. I got one D in college in a PE class that I (sort of :shuffle:) didn't show up for much. It was my only class on Friday, in the morning, way too early :lol:. It was golf, I thought it was a joke, and didn't take it seriously. Honestly, I was lucky I got a D, I didn't deserve it :lol:. It was disrespectful of me to ditch the class like that. But I needed a PE class to graduate and it was 2nd semester senior year.

Prancer
08-09-2010, 08:24 PM
I don't think it would necessitate a nationalized curriculum. I simply think that if all schools used 93-100=A, 86-92=B... or 90-100=A, 80-90=B..., the GPA would be more comparable.

Well, no, they really wouldn't because again, a grade is only as meaningful as the assement used to reach that grade. A C can mean more than A, depending on how the assessment was done.

A GPA is, by itself, meaningless.


I think that numerical on a 100 point scale would work best. Even with standard point ranges an A could = 90 or 100. I'd rather see the actual point values used and there be a cut off for failure.

I don't think it matters in the slightest how an assessment is reflected--numbers grades, letters, whatever. They make no difference at all. It's the method of assessment and what is assessed that counts.


Is that the rationale?

Yep. :rolleyes: Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking.

cruisin
08-09-2010, 08:42 PM
Well, no, they really wouldn't because again, a grade is only as meaningful as the assement used to reach that grade. A C can mean more than A, depending on how the assessment was done.

Do you think that universities are able to make distinctions on that level?


A GPA is, by itself, meaningless.

I don't think it matters in the slightest how an assessment is reflected--numbers grades, letters, whatever. They make no difference at all. It's the method of assessment and what is assessed that counts.

But you are looking at this from the perspective of a teacher, who understands this. If we did away with letter grades, maybe parents would be less focused on As, Bs, Cs. Or not. GPAs on a local level do mean something, more than they should sometimes.

agalisgv
08-09-2010, 08:51 PM
Do you think that universities are able to make distinctions on that level? Absolutely

That's what I've been trying to convey

cruisin
08-09-2010, 08:58 PM
Absolutely

That's what I've been trying to convey

I understood what you were trying to convey. What I have trouble accepting is that colleges really have that level of understanding with every HS and every applicant. I know that a B student in one school might be more proficient than an A student at another school. And I realize that a B student at one school may only have the proficiency of a C student at another school. I understand that colleges and universities have some ability to assess that. But with curriculum differences and and point application differences, just how definitively can they assess? Even within a school grades don't necessarily mean the same thing. One teacher might take off for spelling, another might not. One teacher might give partial credit for a math problem that's solution is wrong, but shows proper protocol/method. Some teachers reward creativity, some want the student to stay within the strict confines of the assignment.

allyx82
08-09-2010, 09:04 PM
actually this is norm at some schools ... I graduated in 2001 and this policy was already in place in my school in California .. a,b,c or F ..

PDilemma
08-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Even within a school grades don't necessarily mean the same thing. One teacher might take off for spelling, another might not. One teacher might give partial credit for a math problem that's solution is wrong, but shows proper protocol/method. Some teachers reward creativity, some want the student to stay within the strict confines of the assignment.

Where I last taught, students in tenth grade world history did worksheets that they got the same credit for doing regardless if they just wrote "blah blah blah" in every blank or actually read the text and found the right answer. After four sections of worksheets, they did a one page fill in the blank test which they got a copy of in advance. In eleventh grade American history (my class), they wrote analytical answers to questions, did research projects, and took essay tests. Kids who got A+ grades in world history as sophs would suddenly be getting Cs and Ds in my course as juniors and their parents would be yelling at me that it didn't make sense because they were good at history before.

I highly doubt that this was an unusual situation. And I'm sure in large schools where more than one teacher teaches the same course, the differences exist just the same.

agalisgv
08-09-2010, 09:12 PM
But with curriculum differences and and point application differences, just how definitively can they assess? Very well (again, speaking of top tier schools here).

Not only are schools ranked, but often the individual teachers within schools.