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judgejudy27
08-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Didnt Elaine skate pro for a bit after the 94 Olympics too. Maybe Elaine would have done better in 83 and 84 if figures didnt exist.

orbitz
08-10-2010, 02:15 PM
Didnt Elaine skate pro for a bit after the 94 Olympics too. Maybe Elaine would have done better in 83 and 84 if figures didnt exist.

Elaine would have done better in 83 and 84 if she was in better shape. Elaine was in great shape in 94. That the shape she should've been in during her hey days in the mid 80s. I also think Peter Burrows and Lynn Gelderman didn't package Elaine very well.

olympic
08-10-2010, 03:46 PM
....I also think Peter Burrows and Lynn Gelderman didn't package Elaine very well.

I remember reading in a book (which has been mentioned before on this board about Lady Figure Skaters and Gymnasts), 'Little Girls in pretty Boxes' [I think that was the title] that Elaine Zayak was Peter and Lynn's first big skater, that they were 'learning as they went along'. I also assumed that they were not only amateurs in packaging, but in the world of skating politik

Mafke
08-10-2010, 05:08 PM
Didnt Elaine skate pro for a bit after the 94 Olympics too. Maybe Elaine would have done better in 83 and 84 if figures didnt exist.

She had problems doing world elite level figures because of the foot. But I suspect that it was intense figure training that allowed her to become a great free skater in spite of the foot.

That is, I really doubt that a young girl (with the same foot problem) starting to skate in the 90's would ever become competitive at the world level with MITF training. ymmv.

floskate
08-12-2010, 12:16 PM
Elaine would have done better in 83 and 84 if she was in better shape. Elaine was in great shape in 94. That the shape she should've been in during her hey days in the mid 80s. I also think Peter Burrows and Lynn Gelderman didn't package Elaine very well.

While I'm not a woman, I would assume it is easier to get into prime physical shape at 28 when the body is fully matured than it would have been for Elaine back in 83-84 when she was 16-18 and puberty wanted her body to go in completely the opposite direction to the one she may have wanted!

As an aside to the whole Peggy Fleming debate here, I was just reading an old old back issue of Ice and Roller Skate from 1982 when a letter to the editor caught my attention. It did so because the letter was written by someone I now know quite well. :lol: It was written in reply to a Worlds report the previous issue by Alex McGowan who used to write for Ice and Roller. Anyway here's the gist:


What I'm writing about concerns Alex McGowan's comment on elaine Zayak that; ''maybe the critics, especially in the USA, will lay off her and her coach and instead be proud of this gutsy kid who brought them a World Championship''.

I'm glad someone has said out loud what I've felt for some time now, and that is: leave Elaine Zayak alone! She has been criticized too much in the past; no one needs that kind of humiliation. The most visual, and certainly the biggest, Elaine critic IMO is Peggy Fleming. Peggy has some idealistic thoughts about ladies skating which do not apply in today's world. Someone has to get Peggy out of the Stone Age world of ladies figure skating and bring her into the competitive reality of the 1980's.

With someone with the profile of McGowan speaking out against the critisism of Elaine, I do wonder if anything was ever said to Peggy regarding her comments on her?

orbitz
08-12-2010, 02:17 PM
While I'm not a woman


For some reason I've always had this image of floskate as a middle age woman with greyish hair in a bun. I think it's because the 'flo' in your screen name reminded me of the Flo "Kiss My Grit" character from the TV show Alice :). I now have to picture you in a different way.


-----

Regarding the criticisms leveled towards Elaine and other skaters. I don't think a skater or any athelete will have motivation to improve if they never hear any constructive criticisms about them.

floskate
08-12-2010, 02:46 PM
For some reason I've always had this image of floskate as a middle age woman with greyish hair in a bun. I think it's because the 'flo' in your screen name reminded me of the Flo "Kiss My Grit" character from the TV show Alice :). I now have to picture you in a different way.


-----

Regarding the criticisms leveled towards Elaine and other skaters. I don't think a skater or any athelete will have motivation to improve if they never hear any constructive criticisms about them.

Firstly I'm 36, male and running in the opposite direction of middle age thankyou!! ;)

Secondly, how is someone saying you're fat constructive? Some of the stuff that was said about Elaine was downright cruel back in the day.

IceKween
08-12-2010, 03:57 PM
With someone with the profile of McGowan speaking out against the critisism of Elaine, I do wonder if anything was ever said to Peggy regarding her comments on her?

That quote was great, because I think many had that sentiment about Peggy's commentary regarding Elaine. It was just so harsh. And it appears Peggy was 'talked to' about it, but she only responded by giving half-compliments ("Elaine has improved her style, a LITTLE...") that only seemed cursory. Even after Elaine brought the house down in Sarajevo and the crowd was excited, a very unexcited Peggy said "Good, but not great" wrt the performance, like wth?

skatesindreams
08-12-2010, 04:48 PM
I've always believed that Peggy thought that Ladies skating should be "graceful"; and well, "ladylike"!
I don't think that she really approved of triples and "power" in Women's skating; unless very well disguised.

Elaine didn't fit her idealized image, or concept of what was appropriate, in any way.
She was the first of many!

floskate,
whole post :respec:

essence_of_soy
08-12-2010, 05:53 PM
Zayak truly is a product of the transitional period in ladies skating. Of the many performances I have downloaded to DVD, I go back to 1981 worlds often.

There were so many new skaters on the scene that year in Hartford, a new era was truly emerging. Skaters like Zayak, Katarina Witt, Denise Biellmann, Debi Cotrill, and Carola Paul had greater athleticism, speed, body awareness, musicality and intensity. What's more, this group was matching the men jump for jump.

One of my fondest memories is seeing Elaine make her comeback live at the U.S. Nationals in Detroit. Even before she began her short program, the audience gave her a reception unlike any other in the entire championship.

There was a sense we'd be in for something special.

Afterwards, everyone jumped out of their seats not only with excitement at a great skate, but that Elaine came back on her terms.

I'll never forget that day.

skateboy
08-13-2010, 05:27 AM
I loved Elaine's comeback in 1994. She skated great--much better than anyone (myself included) expected from her.

(The only thing I didn't like was that floppy ponytail on top of her head! But that's probably just me...)

essence_of_soy
08-13-2010, 06:02 AM
In many ways, Elaine really was a pioneer.

Her programs just in terms of COP content alone, would stand - up today.

Also, once it was understood that triple jumps would become a necessary part of women's competitive skating, this paved the way for others like Liz Manley, Midori Ito, Tonya Harding, Jeri Campbell, etc.

essence_of_soy
08-13-2010, 06:03 AM
(The only thing I didn't like was that floppy ponytail on top of her head! But that's probably just me...)

That ponytail really suited her personality at the time.

Just as Jayne Torvill cut her hair for Lillehammer, there was a part of me that craved seeing Elaine sport her Olivia Newton John inspired do in Detroit as well.

orbitz
08-13-2010, 01:41 PM
In many ways, Elaine really was a pioneer.

Her programs just in terms of COP content alone, would stand - up today.


How so when jumpwise all Elaine had were 3toes and 3sals and an occasional 3loop ? Yes she did a lot of transitions going into them but they were still only toes and sals.



Also, once it was understood that triple jumps would become a necessary part of women's competitive skating, this paved the way for others like Liz Manley, Midori Ito, Tonya Harding, Jeri Campbell, etc.

Linda Fratianne made triple jumps necessary for female figure skaters.

orbitz
08-13-2010, 01:42 PM
I loved Elaine's comeback in 1994. She skated great--much better than anyone (myself included) expected from her.

(The only thing I didn't like was that floppy ponytail on top of her head! But that's probably just me...)

I would've given Elaine a more sophisticated look in her LP.