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Quintuple
08-05-2010, 10:09 PM
Roz's inside edge Ina Bauer into the 2A was more difficult than the more common outside edge IB-2A that Tiffany did. I've not seen anyone else performed Roz's move since 83.

Yu Na Kim, 2007 Worlds SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FmncaNGLOI#t=4m17s)

skateboy
08-05-2010, 10:45 PM
I would need to see the scores of the LP to see if they were fair. I would probably have scored them like this though:

Zayak- technical 5.8, artistic 5.7
Sumners- technical 5.7, artistic 5.9


I would have put Sumners ahead in the LP but it is close.

Sumners completed 1 triple salchow and 2 triple toes (one was barely there, but she held on), fell on a second triple salchow. Spins were slow and not particularly well-executed.

Elaine could have easily skated Roz's program. No way could Roz have skated Elaine's. Other than a hand down on a triple salchow, Elaine skated flawlessly, with much more difficulty. I think there should have been way more than one-tenth of a point difference in their technical scores, with the nod going to Elaine.

Coco
08-06-2010, 12:41 AM
Yu Na Kim, 2007 Worlds SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FmncaNGLOI#t=4m17s)

Oh - Level 4 linking ability! How did you make it go right to that spot in the youtube video?

michiruwater
08-06-2010, 01:19 AM
At the top, in the URL, she added #t=4m17s.

orbitz
08-06-2010, 01:49 AM
Yu Na Kim, 2007 Worlds SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FmncaNGLOI#t=4m17s)

Kim had better flow out of the 2A, but she barely held on to the inside edge of the IB. Roz's was no doubt an inside edge IB from beginning of the move to the end of the move until she went into the jump. I mean it was still an impressive move for Yuna, but I think Roz's was much more artistically successful.

wouldacoulda
08-06-2010, 03:19 AM
Getting back to Elaine, I have to wonder if Roz could have made the comeback at Nationals in '94 that Elaine did. Sure, Roz had done alot of pro skating by then, but Roz came back from being completely out of shape to challenge Harding and Kwan. I was really inspired by that. Off to read the articles at the start of this thread now!

caseyedwards
08-06-2010, 03:39 AM
That is an interesting point and I don't know what jumps Sumners was doing as a pro so unless she was the rare skater who did harder jumps as a pro than as an amateur I doubt that she could do what Zayak did because she was years ahead of the other women!

Erin
08-06-2010, 03:47 AM
I seriously doubt that Sumners could have done what Zayak did - the most difficult jump that Sumners had done in years was the double axel and her basic skating skills weren't what they once were either. Plus, even at her peak, Sumners didn't have the technical content that Zayak did.

I liked Sumners as an amateur skater, but I didn't enjoy many of her pro numbers. I've been watching lots of skating from 94-97 as I've been converting it to DVD and the thing that strikes me about Roz is how jerky and awkward her skating was during those years. And her "flirtatious" numbers were just annoying. That said, I should disclose that I might just be so irritated by her commentary (having just watched 96 World Pros) that it has coloured my perception of her skating.

essence_of_soy
08-06-2010, 05:57 AM
I remember reading in International Figure Skating magazine that around 95-96, Sumners was working on getting her triple toe loop back. She looked really fit and toned back then, IIRC.

Quintuple
08-06-2010, 08:57 AM
I remember watching my first World Pro competition in 1988 - 1)Denise Biellmann, 2) Debi Thomas, 3) Roz Sumners, 4) Dorothy Hamill

Dorothy just came off her pregnancy, skated to Whitney Houston with some doubles nand axels, got some 9.6s-9.8s, and said she expected 1s. Debi Thomas was trying very hard to have more artistic programs. Denise Biellmann was freakin' incredible - it was the first time I saw her skate, and she was so, so, so exciting (speaking of the Zayak-Sumners era).

I remember, having taped it, never ever being able to sit through Roz Sumner's program. It was a French showgirl number, and I do think she had a 2ax, but I remember always being so incredible bored. I wonder if I'd feel the same now.

orbitz
08-06-2010, 01:50 PM
Sumners completed 1 triple salchow and 2 triple toes (one was barely there, but she held on), fell on a second triple salchow. Spins were slow and not particularly well-executed.

Elaine could have easily skated Roz's program. No way could Roz have skated Elaine's.

Jumpwise, yes, Elaine could've easily pull off two 3ts and a 3s in her sleep; However, if we're going back to the argument that skating isn't all about the jumps, then Elaine could not have pulled off the performance that Roz gave. Roz probably couldn't complete Elaine's number of triples, but she would have skated Elaine's program with better speed, better posture, better musicality, etc. Both skaters had their weaknesses and strengths.

orbitz
08-06-2010, 01:54 PM
I remember, having taped it, never ever being able to sit through Roz Sumner's program. It was a French showgirl number, and I do think she had a 2ax, but I remember always being so incredible bored. I wonder if I'd feel the same now.

Roz had a rough first few years as a pro. She had weight issues, was unhappy with her Disney On Ice gig, and generally just didn't have inspired pro programs. Later in her career, she had a few gems like Walk Like An Egyptian and White Christmas. I watched the Egyptian number live in, and she electrified the audience that night. Too bad the judges undermarked Roz, and they were determined to give Debbi the win anyway after her Calgary disappointment.

olympic
08-06-2010, 02:24 PM
Jumpwise, yes, Elaine could've easily pull off two 3ts and a 3s in her sleep; However, if we're going back to the argument that skating isn't all about the jumps, then Elaine could not have pulled off the performance that Roz gave. Roz probably couldn't complete Elaine's number of triples, but she would have skated Elaine's program with better speed, better posture, better musicality, etc. Both skaters had their weaknesses and strengths.


Roz's posture and carriage were pretty amazing. But with Elaine, it wasn't just no. of triples. It was the entrances into the 3jump, the combos, the layout of the program. She didn't have Roz's posture or carriage but she held her own in the spins, too [layback was nice]. And over time her choreography and connection improved. I think a lot of people don't debate Roz's win[s]. Just perhaps, they should've been closer on the judges' cards. Elaine was a true rival.

judgejudy27
08-06-2010, 04:10 PM
Elaine appeared to have better spins than Rosalynn. And she definitely did more jumps in her free programs. I dont think either of them had huge jumps (Elaine had bigger jumps when she first appeared) but Elaine was very effecient rotating and landing solidly, while Roz often seemed to eke out alot of the jumps she did do. They both did moves in field and different elements out of them, Roz more in her 84 program though.

Rosalynn was the better artistic skater, but I still found her bland and not as moving as many of the great artists of the future. Elaine improved her artistry each year as she got older, and by 1984 it was the best it had ever been and quite decent.

olympic
08-06-2010, 05:27 PM
.....Rosalynn was the better artistic skater, but I still found her bland and not as moving as many of the great artists of the future......

Technically I found it odd that despite Roz's good basics, she was not really a good triple jumper. And despite Roz's artistic abilities, I found her somehow cold and aloof while skating, if that makes sense. She never radiated warmth. Although, in the initial SI article that started this thread, it sounds like her mom may have driven her a bit crazy :D