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Karina1974
08-10-2010, 02:53 AM
I believe you are supposed to be quiet around premies.

Not to mention, there's no rule that prayer has to be vocalized in order to be effective.

Prancer
08-10-2010, 03:00 AM
You wanted to say pants, admit it! :)

Surely you are being sarcastic. It's not God's will for anyone to do anything they might be physically capable of.

I have no idea what God's will is and am always surprised at people who think they do.

Of course, since I don't believe in God, well, that kind of follows.

But if I did believe in God and I believed that children were His blessings and birth control was wrong, then yes, I think I would believe that I would stop getting pregnant when God wanted me to. And people who say that God doesn't want that wouldn't hold much sway with me because they would be basing this statement on.........what?

ilovepaydays
08-11-2010, 05:51 PM
Saw the episode last night. Cool that they got to be extras in the Courageous movie. A couple of weeks ago, I got to be in the filming for some ads for a Congressional campaign. You definetely look at it differently once you see what work goes into it.

It also looks like Jana and John David are enjoying their trip to SE Asia.

BTW, the Duggars will be on the cover of the next People. Here is a sneak peak. (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20409404,00.html)

overedge
08-11-2010, 07:22 PM
The PEOPLE story says they are "devout Baptists". I thought they belonged to their own non-denominational Christian church.

Coco
08-11-2010, 07:49 PM
I have no idea what God's will is and am always surprised at people who think they do.

Of course, since I don't believe in God, well, that kind of follows.

But if I did believe in God and I believed that children were His blessings and birth control was wrong, then yes, I think I would believe that I would stop getting pregnant when God wanted me to. And people who say that God doesn't want that wouldn't hold much sway with me because they would be basing this statement on.........what?

You mean stop being able to get pregnant when god wanted you to stop having babies?

Having grown up around fundamentalist christians, I just don't see them following that logic. They aren't that simplistic. The adults in my parents' church seemed well aware that just because they could do something that god had made possible before, such as going on a missionary trip, it wasn't necessarily what god wanted for them now.

It comes down to the question of whether or not she believes god wants her to RAISE as many of her own children as possible, however she chooses to delegate various daily tasks, or does god want her to get pregnant as many times as humanly possible, and together with modern science, give birth. At this point, with the health risks, those two 'goals' are starting to take her in different directions.

At this point, they receive so much attention, or as they might say, "glory" for their behavior, that it might be clouding their judgment.

Norlite
08-11-2010, 09:09 PM
It comes down to the question of whether or not she believes god wants her to RAISE as many of her own children as possible, however she chooses to delegate various daily tasks,


I've never seen even one of these shows, and only know or even heard of the Duggars through this board, but every time someone says something like this I have to :rolleyes:

I worked full time all the years my kids were small, and my husband worked more than FT. We've had nannies, babysitters before and after school, daycare sitters, housekeepers and yes, horror upon horror, my older son watching his younger siblings.


You all sound like an older generation, like my mother and mother in law, who always tsk tsked at us who either had to work or chose to work and left the raising of our kids up to someone else.

I assure you, I, along with my husband, raised our kids ourselves, as, from everything I have read, do the Duggars. Older siblings having responsibilies or not.

ETA: apologies to Coco if I misunderstood your particular post.

ArtisticFan
08-11-2010, 09:15 PM
It also looks like Jana and John David are enjoying their trip to SE Asia.

BTW, the Duggars will be on the cover of the next People. Here is a sneak peak. (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20409404,00.html)

I couldn't get past the blatant lie that occured last week between episodes one and two. In the first episode, Michelle stated that Jana approached them about going on the mission trip. She and Jim Bob talked about it and decided that she could go only if John David was to go too. Then in episode two the story changed to John David heard that Jana was going and wanted to tag along.

I realize that their belief system would indicate that the first explanation was correct in their eyes. They probably wouldn't find it safe for Jana to travel alone, nor would they find it appropriate for her to do so as a single woman. Either way, one would think they could be consistent in their on camera explanations.

While I don't agree with the purpose of the mission from what I have read from bloggers on the trip, I'm glad that Jana was allowed to go - even with her brother. Travel is not a bad thing in and of itself.

Coco
08-11-2010, 09:32 PM
I've never seen even one of these shows, and only know or even heard of the Duggars through this board, but every time someone says something like this I have to :rolleyes:

I worked full time all the years my kids were small, and my husband worked more than FT. We've had nannies, babysitters before and after school, daycare sitters, housekeepers and yes, horror upon horror, my older son watching his younger siblings.


You all sound like an older generation, like my mother and mother in law, who always tsk tsked at us who either had to work or chose to work and left the raising of our kids up to someone else.

I assure you, I, along with my husband, raised our kids ourselves, as, from everything I have read, do the Duggars. Older siblings having responsibilies or not.

ETA: apologies to Coco if I misunderstood your particular post.

no worries :)

My mom worked outside of the house and my brother and I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours in daycare. We always knew who our mother was!!! No parent raises their child without help, imo.

ArtisticFan
08-11-2010, 09:36 PM
I assure you, I, along with my husband, raised our kids ourselves, as, from everything I have read, do the Duggars. Older siblings having responsibilies or not.

Yes, older siblings typically have more responsibilities in larger families. However, if you do read material on Quiverful ways of thinking, they go beyond just chores for those older siblings. It is one thing to have older sisters babysitting the younger ones, but to have them raising their siblings to the point that the younger children identify a teenage sister as their primary caregiver is a bit over the top in my opinion. The two youngest girls before Josie (Jennifer and Jordyn) have been filmed calling their sisters mom and bypassing Michelle when seeking comfort to go to an older sister.

As you stated in your post, you and your husband hired nannies, babysitters, etc. While your son watched younger siblings, was he responsible for raising them in the sense of discipline, etc.? From all accounts, including the book written by Jim Bob and Michelle, those four oldest girls are given those responsibilities, including supervising the home schooling of the other children.

Michelle even said on last night's episode that she was not used to caring for a baby by herself. Whole episodes have shown the chaos and confusion when the four oldest girls are not at home with their siblings. If Michelle and Jim Bob were raising their children primarily by themselves, they wouldn't make such a big deal out of it when one of them was left alone with any of the children.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, as personally I'd jump off a bridge before having one child let alone 19, but I do find the parents lack of involvement to be worrisome. I guess I shouldn't care because according to most books on the topic, the 19 children are simply being raised to repeat the cycle themselves with their own families. But having read the reports of those that do escape from such families, I would say that such an upbringing leaves them at a disadvantage to cope with the outside world.

Prancer
08-14-2010, 02:16 AM
You mean stop being able to get pregnant when god wanted you to stop having babies?

Having grown up around fundamentalist christians, I just don't see them following that logic. They aren't that simplistic. The adults in my parents' church seemed well aware that just because they could do something that god had made possible before, such as going on a missionary trip, it wasn't necessarily what god wanted for them now.

:huh: How does one negate the other? The Duggars have stated that they will accept all the children that God sends them, it seems clear to me that they do indeed think God is in charge of whether Michelle gets pregnant or not. That doesn't mean that they assume God will make it happen again just because it has happened before; it mean's that it's up to God to decide if it happens again. If it doesn't, it will be because it was God's will that Michelle stop having children.

And yes, a lot of fundamentalists are indeed that simple. They pray, stuff happens, it's God's will.

Lacey
08-14-2010, 02:59 AM
Having seen a catchup show with about 5 episodes, I am seriously worried for Michele's health if she gets pregnant again.

numbers123
08-14-2010, 03:09 AM
I didn't pick it up to even thumb through, but I thought I saw a "newspaper" with them on the cover saying that they were ready for another one?

Of course, it is their decision and some women just like how they feel during pregnancy. I just know that it would not be my choice.

genevieve
08-14-2010, 03:16 AM
I think they are on the cover of People this week.

Lacey
08-14-2010, 03:43 AM
The headline on the cover is "'We're ready for more.'" Seriously, apparently Michele's chances of getting pre-eclampsia again are very high, and this is dangerous not only for the baby probably needing to be taken way too early with all of the hazards of prematurity, but also for the mother--she can stroke out or worse.

Also, I think Michele needs to concentrate on taking care of her own children, and not leaving it to her oldest four girls to have to nurture and babysit, in essence bring up, the last 3-4 babies before Josie (who Michele admits has been "raised" in the hospital by her care system) and including her now that she's home, and help with the, is it 10, others (the oldest is married) by cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, even apparently home school teaching them. Please, mother, give these older four their own lives.

Bailey_
08-14-2010, 02:17 PM
ITA Lacey.

In my job, I work with premature babies and they have no idea the risk they take and the way that a child with serious complications due to extreme prematurity (possibly Cerebral Palsy, Autism, etc...) would affect their lives. It remains to be seen what Josie's outcome will be - I thought their experience in the NICU would have been eye-opening but apparently not.

I also think they need to be aware that should she get pregnant again and have a serious complication herself, she will be leaving 19 children with their father to be raised (I know, more like 15 children because the oldest in on his own and the older children are raising the younger children). If they make that choice, then I think it is an incredibly irresponsible decision for so many reasons, not the least of which being that she is seriously putting her own health at risk with another pregnancy.

There is a lot to be said for recognizing the fact that you have been blessed with 19 healthy children and making the decision that you want to be around to parent and enjoy the children that you have already brought into the world.