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bardtoob
07-16-2010, 06:48 PM
Frank Carroll and the Kwan sisters.

I heard that Frank got Karen in order to get Michelle. Danny Kwan did not want them to be apart. Frank was okay with it because Karen was good enough to fit in.

bardtoob
07-16-2010, 06:52 PM
When Carlo Fassi was coaching Curry, Cousins and Hamilton in the mid- to late-70s, he was also coaching a good number of skaters from what I think was pretty much every country in Europe at the time :lol: I guess there would have been some rivalries there...

It made it easier to manipulate the results of a whole competition by politiking for the order of placements of his own skaters because of how the factor placement ordinals worked.

iarispiralllyof
07-16-2010, 09:40 PM
imo karen had great potential. although michelle became known for her artistry, I remember in the beginning when they were both competing together karen in particular was commended for her artistry and lyrical arms, while comparatively michelle was supposed to be the athletic one who could land a lot of jumps. karen, being older and soon after moving onto college, probably felt with a younger sibling rising to prominence in the sport and so far ahead of her that she was meant for other things. but I think she did have the potential to be a very good skater in her own right.

pinky166
07-16-2010, 10:36 PM
2 coaches that don't seem to have such issues: Nikolai Morozov and Tom Z.

Morozov was coaching Shizuka and Miki at the same time for a while right? And also Oda and Takahashi?

Tom Z. was coaching Abbott and Bradley for a while before Abbott switched and currently he has Flatt and Zawadzki and Gilles, though Alexe is a notch below the other 2 girls at this point.

ponta1
07-16-2010, 10:39 PM
2 coaches that don't seem to have such issues: Nikolai Morozov and Tom Z.

Morozov was coaching Shizuka and Miki at the same time for a while right? And also Oda and Takahashi?

Tom Z. was coaching Abbott and Bradley for a while before Abbott switched and currently he has Flatt and Zawadzki and Gilles, though Alexe is a notch below the other 2 girls at this point.

Wasn't Morozov taking on Oda part of the reason why Takahashi left?

skatesindreams
07-16-2010, 10:40 PM
I heard that Frank got Karen in order to get Michelle. Danny Kwan did not want them to be apart. Frank was okay with it because Karen was good enough to fit in.

Interesting!

I was fascinated by Karen/Michelle because of the lack of physical similarity between them.
If I hadn't known that they were sisters, I might not have guessed.

Lainerb
07-16-2010, 11:44 PM
2 coaches that don't seem to have such issues: Nikolai Morozov and Tom Z.

Morozov was coaching Shizuka and Miki at the same time for a while right? And also Oda and Takahashi?

Tom Z. was coaching Abbott and Bradley for a while before Abbott switched and currently he has Flatt and Zawadzki and Gilles, though Alexe is a notch below the other 2 girls at this point.

Miki went to Morozov after the 2005-2006 season when Shizuka had retired by that point. Miki was with Carol Heiss-Jenkins during 05-06.

Seerek
07-17-2010, 03:38 AM
Jill Trenary and Caryn Kadavy both had Carlo Fassi as their coach. Caryn did leave Fassi later because of the rivalry between her and Jill..

interesting and I am assuming this was after the Olympic season. Who was Caryn's coach after that?

aftershocks
07-17-2010, 04:57 AM
I heard that Frank got Karen in order to get Michelle. Danny Kwan did not want them to be apart. Frank was okay with it because Karen was good enough to fit in.

I heard that Linda Fratianne's mother had something to do with Frank being approached to coach Michelle and Karen. But sure they probably both came as a package deal, tho' I wonder whether Frank saw more potential in Michelle when they were young. I believe Karen had a lot of wonderful qualities as a skater, and that she inspired Michelle in many ways. Karen choreographed Michelle's latest exhibition, Winter Song -- it's quintessential Michelle!

On manleywoman's podcast, Frank indicated that he coaches a lot of students of all ages, those who are serious about progressing in the sport, as well as people who are just interested in learning because they enjoy skating and want to improve.

Domshabfan
07-17-2010, 06:50 AM
2 coaches that don't seem to have such issues: Nikolai Morozov and Tom Z.

Morozov was coaching Shizuka and Miki at the same time for a while right? And also Oda and Takahashi?

Tom Z. was coaching Abbott and Bradley for a while before Abbott switched and currently he has Flatt and Zawadzki and Gilles, though Alexe is a notch below the other 2 girls at this point.
i don't think morosov coached both Shizuka and Miki at the same time... Miki only came to morosov after the disastrous performance at 2006 olympics, and by that time Shizuka was in semi-retirement

screech
07-17-2010, 03:14 PM
Lee Barkell had both Jeff Buttle and Chris Mabee (and Joey Russell) competing at Canadians at the same time. Obviously, Jeff was the most successful of the bunch. The most 'even' skaters I think Lee had was when he had both Jeff and Nobunari Oda competing in senior at the same time, where Oda came 4th at his first Worlds (Jeff was 6th that year) then Oda was 7th the next (Jeff 6th again). At the 2006 GPF Jeff was 2nd, Oda was 3rd. Of course Jeff won Worlds the following year (when Oda took his break) so that's the extent of their major competitions.

Also, didn't Rafael have Jeff at the same time as Ivan Dinev? Again, Jeff was more successful.

orbitz
07-17-2010, 03:43 PM
interesting and I am assuming this was after the Olympic season. Who was Caryn's coach after that?

I don't remember. I think it was either an old coach she had prior to Fassi, or maybe it was Evelyn Kramer, the Spin Doctor, whom we often saw by her side in all those pro competitions that Karyn competed in.

bardtoob
07-17-2010, 03:49 PM
I heard that Frank got Karen in order to get Michelle. Danny Kwan did not want them to be apart. Frank was okay with it because Karen was good enough to fit in.


Interesting!

I was fascinated by Karen/Michelle because of the lack of physical similarity between them.
If I hadn't known that they were sisters, I might not have guessed.


I heard that Linda Fratianne's mother had something to do with Frank being approached to coach Michelle and Karen. But sure they probably both came as a package deal, tho' I wonder whether Frank saw more potential in Michelle when they were young. I believe Karen had a lot of wonderful qualities as a skater, and that she inspired Michelle in many ways. Karen choreographed Michelle's latest exhibition, Winter Song -- it's quintessential Michelle!

Let's make something VERY CLEAR, I said Karen was good enough to fit in. She was at least top 7 at 3 Sr. Nationals in a row and received international assignments. Furthermore, Karen is a very good coach, by all accounts. She would have been a very desirable pupil by any coach.

However, Danny needed for his family to be in a maximum of 2 locations, so when every coach and their sister wanted coachless Triple Toe landing Michelle Kwan after 1991 Jr Nationals, Danny said Michelle and Karen had to stay together.

skatesindreams
07-17-2010, 04:36 PM
My comment about Karen and Michelle wasn't a negative one.

poths
07-17-2010, 04:55 PM
Doug Leigh had Elvis and Steven Cousins at the same time, although I'm sure Robert Tebby was more than influential with the latter.

Kudriatsevs had (every eastern Euro lady at some point?) Volchkova and Lautowa at the same time. Vika has a hatrick of euro medals, Lautowa managed an 8th at worlds and was IMHO the better skater.

Steuer had S&S, Fitze and Rex :P and then Volosozhar and Morozov at the same time.