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View Full Version : Coaching changes for better or worse?



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Hedwig
07-12-2010, 10:33 AM
obviously: Kim to Orser=great

Gritschuk Platov from Duboba to Lininschuk also great

pumba
07-12-2010, 12:07 PM
Totmianina/Marinin leaving Pavlova for Vasiliev helped them obtain the qualities (amazing consistency, quality of jumps, emotional stability) that completed with their natural elegenace, perfect lines and physical beauty lead them to the Olys gold.
After reading the numerous ambiguous interviews of all three parties one may think that Mukhortova/Trankov's partnership under Vasiliev was a total disaster, but I'd say that was definitely for better. At least they got an unvalued experience that will help them a lot even after they broke up.
As for Obertas/Slavnov - surely their collaboration with Moskvina was a disaster, but seems like Tamara Moskvina compensated this failure with Kawaguti/Smirnov, who basically perfom in the same style as O/S.
Seems like working with Moskvina did not help Borzenkova/Chuviliaev either.
And I wish a coach like Vasiliev for the Zhangs. There is no way they'll progress under Bin Yao.
Grischuk/Platov's, Klimova/Ponomarenko's, Kulik's move to Tarasova was also great.

Jun Y
07-12-2010, 01:48 PM
Methinks whether a coach switch is successful has a lot to do with the skater him/her/themselves, especially the age, maturity, and rationale for the switch. Sometimes a coach may be fantastic for one skater but disastrous for another, and one has to look at the skater (and, sometimes, her mother/father) for the cause.

CynicElle
07-12-2010, 01:56 PM
Kwan from self/dad to Scott Williams was good. And very attractive. :saint:

briancoogaert
07-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Good:
- Butyrskaya leaving Kudriavtsev for Chaikovskaya: Maria really improved under her coaching. She became more consistent and flourished as a performer.

But her programs were less interesting, IMO. I loved the originality she had at the beginning.

IneZR
07-12-2010, 04:13 PM
But her programs were less interesting, IMO. I loved the originality she had at the beginning.

With Chaikovskaya Maria gained confidence she was lacking while being Kudriavtsev's student. He is a great technical coach, but it looked like he just couldn't find the right words to make Maria feel more confident: sometimes she looked so frightened to be on the ice, I felt sorry for her. I agree that her programs became less interesting, but it might have been Chaikovskaya's strategy to gain consistency with the jumps by having Maria to skate more simple programs with watered down choreo. In the end it did pay off: she won her biggest titles under Chaikovskaya. ;)

query5
07-12-2010, 05:37 PM
if you are talking about program with regards to coaches,
sasha to tat wasn't good, wagner wasn't good, same old same old,
technique improved under tat disater under sarah's coach
mao coachless, under tat-programs diaster, technique so-so
abbott under yuka-disaster,

for all the coaching changes, the programs don't improve under new coaches they usually stay the same and/or get worse. What should improve under coaching changes is the skaters mental, technique that should improved, but because figure skating in more muscle memory alot of times it doesn't improve and or gets worse.
it still about the talent and mental ability of the skater not about the coach, and who the judges, and federations are willing to overlook their screwups,
under michelle no-one over looked her mishaps.

Fallcolor
07-12-2010, 06:26 PM
Good:
- Tanith became more polished and elegant and her leg line improved a lot. Also, I don't think Tanith/Ben's placements would have improved had they stayed with Marina/Igor. The results of 09' Worlds might have looked completely different had they stayed in Shiplband/Zoueva's camp.
She did but her speed and power throughout the busy sections were dramatically reduced. Depends on what what you think outweighs the other...finer quality 'movements' in exchange for ability to perform more difficult tricks + wow factors. The move was good for their silver in 09, but olympic podium would probably remain the same. (oops i guess this topic has been discussed too much already lol)


- Takahashi leaving Morozov: his smartest decision ever!
Thought he had his best programs with Morozov. Even though his work isn't everyone's taste, i think a skater as talented as Takahashi would have been able to inspire more original ideas from Morozov...

also, -- i actually think the Siudek's coaching change to Gauthier in '03 was good for them. They had more success that yr before her shoulder injury, and they seemed to have a great working relationship.

olympic
07-12-2010, 06:32 PM
How about these food-for-thought oldies -

Rodnina/Zaitzev from Zhuk to Tarasova in the 70s. Good? Bad? Or didn't matter?

Fratianne electing to stay with FC over politically strong Carlo Fassi [coach of Peggy, Dorothy and John Curry] in 1979. Lost the gold in '80 by a smidge to Poetzsch.

Tiffany Chin - what a mess! FC to John Nicks to Don Laws back to FC. Who was the best coach for her and who would've taken her the furthest?

Nicole Bobek- from Richard Callaghan to Carlo Fassi. Good or bad?

Anyway

The Good - Mirai to FC from Charlene Wong; Rippon to Orser from Morozov; Yagudin to Tat from Mishin; Goebel to FC from Heiss-Jenkins; Arakawa to Tat from Callaghan; Kwan to Arutunian from Williams; Kwan from coachless to Williams

The Bad - Cohen to Wagner; Kwan to coachless

Can't quantify - Abbott from Zakrzajek [sp?] to Sato [too early]; B/A to Linichuk from Shpilband [better skills but dumped by 2009-10 season]; McBru from Sappenfield to Nicks [alas, we will never know:(]

jlai
07-12-2010, 06:35 PM
No way. He showed much better choreography and use of music after the switch, not to mention he himself showed much more presence and maturity as a skater.

He actually had transitions in Troika. His post 98 longs were from one element to another. And they were mostly on movie-soundtrack-hero motifs. The first one (1999) was great; the others were kind like Evan's post Carmen works--same elements to diff. music

bardtoob
07-12-2010, 07:14 PM
Tiffany Chin should have stayed with Frank Carroll. He got her to a Jr. World Championship with solid balanced technique in figures and free skating and she was doing the 3A, 3F, 3Lp, 3S, and 3T in practice. Mr. Nicks did will in terms of enhancing her development, but he really only added PIZZAZZ!!! to her skating. Too bad the person in charge of her development always thought the grass was greener elsewhere.

I also do not think changing to coaches with different technique is advisable, and I think FC's Bostonian-MVO technique was not all that compatible with Mr. Nick's British technique, which is why she declined. By the time she ended up with Don Laws, the mechanics of her jumps were too muttled. One would have thought she never had consistent triples.

olympic
07-12-2010, 07:45 PM
Tiffany Chin should have stayed with Frank Carroll. He got her to a Jr. World Championship with solid balanced technique in figures and free skating and she was doing the 3A, 3F, 3Lp, 3S, and 3T in practice. Mr. Nicks did will in terms of enhancing her development, but he really only added PIZZAZZ!!! to her skating. Too bad the person in charge of her development always thought the grass was greener elsewhere.

Are you talking about Mama?

RockTheTassel
07-12-2010, 07:46 PM
abbott under yuka-disaster

:confused: Why would you call this a disaster? I don't think his skills or programs declined under Yuka. While with her, Jeremy won nationals by twenty-five points and got his highest placement at Worlds yet. Yes, he messed up at the Olympics, but he was already known to do poorly at major competitions. I don't think that would have been different if he'd trained with another coach.

bardtoob
07-12-2010, 07:52 PM
Are you talking about Mama?

Yes, but I am also trying to not be mean :slinkaway . . . What's wrong with me today? :2faced:

museksk8r
07-12-2010, 08:24 PM
:confused: Why would you call this a disaster? I don't think his skills or programs declined under Yuka. While with her, Jeremy won nationals by twenty-five points and got his highest placement at Worlds yet. Yes, he messed up at the Olympics, but he was already known to do poorly at major competitions. I don't think that would have been different if he'd trained with another coach.

For realz! Abbott won Skate Canada over Takahashi, had the 2nd highest rated LP at the GPF with the highest TES score, put a beatdown on the reigning World champ and eventual Olympic champ by 25 points, and placed 5th at Worlds under Sato's tutelage. I certainly wouldn't say she hasn't helped him.