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Sparks
07-16-2010, 09:11 PM
I feel sorry for you, if you think that is funny.
With these sorts of attitudes, it's no wonder women who are being abused worry that no one is going to believe them.

I agree.
And:

Just read that Mel's ex of 28 years denies any abuse and claims he was a loving father and husband.

Hmmm...makes you wonder about the innocent Miss Oksana! Doesn't it.
..implies that the b*tch had it coming or something. :rolleyes:
Maybe the ex-wife never recognized his behavior as abusive (?)

Mel could have had anger issues all along, or he is decompensating because of the alcohol abuse. BTW, tumors rarely cause irratic behavior. That is an overstated myth, imo.

ArtisticFan
07-16-2010, 09:33 PM
It makes me wonder more about the ex-wife of more than 20 years. She was married to him for that long, including during the time of his DUI and Jewish/sugar ***s rant, but she claims that he was not abusive or like that.

My gut reaction is to say that she either can't say anything bad because of an agreement or she feels that she would be in danger by doing so. Or she thinks/feels that if he was somehow abusive to her that people will question why she stayed with him so long. PR wise she would have been better off not speaking at all. I'm not sure that her "everything was wonderful" speech is going to do much to help him. Consider the source...she left him for some reason.

Whether or not Oksana doctored her part of the conversation by removing/replacing parts where she provoked him doesn't change the fact that he sounded like an angry lunatic on them. People have questioned if she was being spoken to like that why didn't she hang up. Why didn't he? If she was provoking him or giving as good as she got, why did he continue to play along?

At the very least the man has some anger management issues. I can't believe that his ex-wife is not aware of that even if she was never on the receiving end of it.

bek
07-16-2010, 09:42 PM
It makes me wonder more about the ex-wife of more than 20 years. She was married to him for that long, including during the time of his DUI and Jewish/sugar ***s rant, but she claims that he was not abusive or like that.



Reports were that Robyn left Mel because of the DUI Jewish rant.

Norlite
07-16-2010, 11:52 PM
I had always read that living with Gibson was no picnic for Robyn.

Never any reports of violent abuse, just he was always a heavy drinker and womanizer, that's never been a secret. Even back in the Mad Max, Lethal Weapon days. And they had separated once before years ago IIRC.


And all she swore under oath was that he never physically abused her or their kids. Lots of other kinds of abuse in families

cruisin
07-17-2010, 01:42 AM
I feel sorry for you, if you think that is funny.
With these sorts of attitudes, it's no wonder women who are being abused worry that no one is going to believe them.

Lighten up. You have no idea where I am coming from. You read things, pick up on the most obscure irrelevant details and get all preachy. What was funny was your willingness to suspect Robyn of being less than forthright, yet you don't question Oksana's motives at all.

I will say this again, since you don't seem to be able to connect with it. NO WOMAN DESERVES TO BE ABUSED BY ANYONE, MALE OR FEMALE. I don't care what she does, I don't care if the a$$hole who abuses her thinks she deserves it, she doesn't deserve it. But, some women do knowingly put themselves in $hitty situations. That does not mean they should be punished for it.

Some people (men and women) can be abusive very quietly. They can be cruel, whispered in an ear. They can be dismissive, they can say demeaning things, they can belittle - all quietly, without coming off as overtly abusive. The words that Gibson used were loud and foul, but just as much harm can be done with quiet less ugly words. I witnessed a situation where someone was being very quietly abused. That person would take it and keep quiet for long periods of time, then hit a breaking point and explode for a few minutes. Unfortunately that person was accused of behaving badly. But it was the person who daily, hourly, for no reason, would pick and demean who was truly the abuser. Abuse comes in many forms.

What Gibson did is horrible, end of story.

Ozzisk8tr
07-17-2010, 02:42 AM
You forgot there is DOING the NASTY once your kids are grown and you have the freedom to be a Tommy Lee or Pamela Anderson...:D

Just the thought of this made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

hydro
07-17-2010, 02:50 AM
I had always read that living with Gibson was no picnic for Robyn.

Never any reports of violent abuse, just he was always a heavy drinker and womanizer, that's never been a secret. Even back in the Mad Max, Lethal Weapon days. And they had separated once before years ago IIRC.


Yes, Mel Gibson is a notorious womanizer. I had a friend who witness him snort a line of coke and ask her to his hotel room to have sex. This was when he was in the Philly area shootiing Signs.

Needless to say, she declined.

overedge
07-17-2010, 03:42 AM
Lighten up. You have no idea where I am coming from. You read things, pick up on the most obscure irrelevant details and get all preachy. What was funny was your willingness to suspect Robyn of being less than forthright, yet you don't question Oksana's motives at all.

I will say this again, since you don't seem to be able to connect with it. NO WOMAN DESERVES TO BE ABUSED BY ANYONE, MALE OR FEMALE.

You have no idea where I am coming from, either, so get off your high horse.

And maybe the reason you have to keep saying what you're saying is that you continually undermine it with speculation about what Oksana did or didn't do. If she, or anyone, doesn't deserve to be abused, then what she did or didn't do is irrelevant. ArtisticFan said it very well.


Whether or not Oksana doctored her part of the conversation by removing/replacing parts where she provoked him doesn't change the fact that he sounded like an angry lunatic on them. People have questioned if she was being spoken to like that why didn't she hang up. Why didn't he? If she was provoking him or giving as good as she got, why did he continue to play along?

At the very least the man has some anger management issues. I can't believe that his ex-wife is not aware of that even if she was never on the receiving end of it.

cruisin
07-17-2010, 03:46 AM
Yes, Mel Gibson is a notorious womanizer. I had a friend who witness him snort a line of coke and ask her to his hotel room to have sex. This was when he was in the Philly area shootiing Signs.

Needless to say, she declined.

Was he abusive to her when she said no? This is the thing, the guy clearly was and is a jerk. But, it is possible that the abuse is a more recent phenomenon. I was aware that he has admitted to having problems with alcohol. I am not aware of drug issues. But, maybe he has a drug problem as well. Drugs (and/or alcohol/age*), certainly can exacerbate psychological disorders and cause belligerent, abusive behavior.

Certainly, this is a good reason to not consider legalizing controlled substances.

*My father was in an assisted living facility for the last two years of his life. He needed to be there because he became so verbally abusive, when he did not get his way, that we could not deal with him. He was a brittle diabetic and wanted to control his diabetes his own way, he was killing himself. In any case, while he was there, I became very aware of how the elderly can change. They can become very narcissistic and nasty when they want something and someone says no. The point is, that the elderly lose some amount of cognitive function. People who might have been appalled by cursing are suddenly throwing 4 letter words around like please and thank you. They even get physically abusive with the staff or family members. This can happen to younger people if they have abused their own health, or if they have pre-existing disorders. There is no excuse for Gibson's ranting, but there may be an illness which explains it.

Just an FYI, Oksana's teeth were not knocked out. Her teeth were not effected at all. Apparently, she lost a veneer and another veneer was chipped. This is according to the dentist. Overedge, before you comment, that is just the facts, not lessening the abuse factor. Gibson still hit her. But, fortunately she did not lose her actual teeth.

cruisin
07-17-2010, 03:53 AM
You have no idea where I am coming from, either, so get off your high horse.

I'm not on one.


And maybe the reason you have to keep saying what you're saying is that you continually undermine it with speculation about what Oksana did or didn't do. If she, or anyone, doesn't deserve to be abused, then what she did or didn't do is irrelevant. ArtisticFan said it very well.

I am not undermining anything. I am stating that none of us know what happened between them. We have heard a tape. A tape that was recorded by someone involved. We do not know what was edited out. We know that Gibson behaved like an a$$hole. We do not know if Oksana behaved equally badly or whether she was as submissive as she appears. I am simply trying to balance the conversation. What Oksana did or said is not irrelevant. If she deliberately provoked him, if she was also abusive, she is not so innocent. If she did nothing to provoke him, that is also relevant, she is completely innocent. I am not deciding what she did or did not do. I am not judging her. I am proposing that none of us know all of it.

Marlowe
07-17-2010, 05:05 AM
Interesting take by David Brooks in the NYTimes editorial pages today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/opinion/16brooks.html?hp

Auntie
07-17-2010, 01:16 PM
Interesting take by David Brooks in the NYTimes editorial pages today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/opinion/16brooks.html?hp

Love David Brooks. Don't always agree with him but I do respect his opinion. Thanks for the link. I found this paragraph from the article to be very disturbing:

"In their book, “The Narcissism Epidemic,” Jean M. Twenge and W. Keith Campbell cite data to suggest that at least since the 1970s, we have suffered from national self-esteem inflation. They cite my favorite piece of sociological data: In 1950, thousands of teenagers were asked if they considered themselves an “important person.” Twelve percent said yes. In the late 1980s, another few thousand were asked. This time, 80 percent of girls and 77 percent of boys said yes. "

Rex
07-17-2010, 02:54 PM
Does this mean he has to return his Sexiest Man Alive Awards back to PEOPLE Magazine? :saint:

falling_dance
07-17-2010, 03:10 PM
Does this mean he has to return his Sexiest Man Alive Awards back to PEOPLE Magazine? :saint:

No less important: was someone second in line for the honor that year? Should that man get part of a future cover ("the new Sexiest Man Alive in 1985")?

Rex
07-17-2010, 03:23 PM
No less important: was someone second in line for the honor that year? Should that man get part of a future cover ("the new Sexiest Man Alive in 1985")?

The mind, she boggles, eys?