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igniculus
07-08-2010, 07:51 PM
If Sasha could come back, anything is possible. Or at least I'll hope so.

I know we all hope. But Sasha has an olympic medal, which is a PCS boost even if she lacks in other departments.


Figure skating will be a lot less fabulous and fun this year.

You see, I disagree. There are many fabulous boys out there who have been growing and outshining a lot of the big, older favorites in the past couple of seasons, and they have made men's skating exciting at least for the next 5+ years. While Johnny was one entertaining character, he certainly was not the alpha and omega of the men skating fabulousity.

SamuraiK
07-08-2010, 07:59 PM
I hope SCanada invites another american guy for the spot open. Hochstein was roally screwed, I hope he can get at least 1 event ouf of the withdrawals.

The TEB spot would probably go to an euro skater, maybe Borodulin or Bacchini.

HisWeirness
07-08-2010, 08:06 PM
Well, there are medals and medals... Weir has never won a gold or silver medal in any major international competitions, a World bronze is his only achievement.
Really? I had no idea. No one has ever mentioned this before. :violin:


Weir is lacking in reputation, he only has one World bronze medal.

While Weir´s competition achievements may look impressive e.g. for the fans or for skaters who are standing at the end of the list in WC and Olympics, compared to top skaters (= several WC medals and a medal from Olympics) his skating achievements are not so impressive:

Three National titles combined with one World bronze medal and 5th & 6th place finish at the Olympics are showing that Weir definetely is not of top skater material.

Unfortunately Weir has not worked enough to get a reputation, just one bronze medal from Worlds, does not achieve it.

Weir may have lost some reputation because he was not at Worlds in 2009, but also otherwise (with only one WC bronze medal) he is not a skater with the reputation of e.g. Plushenko, who will get high PCS scores what ever his programmes look like, LOL.

Weir is an one-time WC bronze medalist and has nothing more from major international competitions.

Weir has just only one WC bronze medal...

zaphyre14
07-08-2010, 08:12 PM
I can let my breath out now. :shuffle:

RockTheTassel
07-08-2010, 08:20 PM
Not a bit surprised, but it's still sad. I'll miss his skating.

aftershocks
07-08-2010, 08:20 PM
The thing is that I'm fairly sure he won't be able to comeback.
He has an amazing skating, but very old fashion, and he is not a great athlete. So, I don't see him coming back better than he actually is. Except the artistic side, he can be more modern, but it won't be better for his rankings ! JMHO



I'm hoping something got lost in translation on this, because I can't see how any of the top guys are not great athletes, Johnny included. You don't rack up the number of medals he has without being a great athlete.



Yes, I think, lol
My thought is that athletisism is not his best strenght ! Compared to Evan, Evgeny, Daisuke, Stephane, Brian. They are all more dynamic and powerful.
That's what I meant.
So, I'm afraid it won't be better after a year off ;)


:lol: Wow, briancoo... Well you're definitely entitled to your opinion, and Johnny himself would defend your right to speak your mind and see things the way you see them. Johnny and "oldfashioned" in the same sentence... :huh: you must be kidding!!! I totally agree with sunny sari and bittybug. Every skater has a different style. The thing about Johnny is that he's so smooth and fluid he makes extremely difficult athletic moves look easy. He was an athlete in other sports before he became a figure skater. We have his equestrian skills to thank for the beautiful posture he exhibits on jump landings. The fact that other athletes like Plushenko and Brian have consistent quads doesn't make them better athletes. Have you ever seen the vid clip of Johnny performing a gorgeous quad, triple, double in practice (if not see the link below).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUldWQuk0TE

Yes it was in practice and not in competition, but even in competition, I've never seen the other guys you mention able to perform such difficult jumps that smoothly and with such great posture and flow out. Mostly from the other guys you see the great effort it takes and their landings are usually heavy with their upper bodies often bending forward. All of these guys, including Johnny are great athletes -- there is no way to reach the top of this sport otherwise. Johnny's biggest weakness IMO, was in having difficulty believing in and maximizing his talent -- having risen so quickly and having entered the sport at a later age than most skaters, Johnny's competitive skills have not been as strong as some other guys, such as Plush and Evan.

Lambiel is a sweet guy and a free spirit as a skater -- he reminds me of a windmill on the ice, yet Lamby forever had trouble with various jumps and with performing completely clean programs consistently, especially his long programs. Later in his career, Lamby's triple axel was non-existent. I wonder how much Lamby's focus on the quad -- usually landed with an extremely bent knee-- caused him to have troubles with his 3axel. I love Lambiel, and he's probably the male skater who would have been my fave (along with Brian) over the past years, if Johnny had not been in the sport. (Now it seems Lamby and Johnny are both moving on -- tho' I wouldn't quite give up on Johnny never being able to come back if that's what he truly wants to do). I'd say that Johnny's strengths actually lie in his all-around ability to do everything well as a skater.

IMO, Daisuke is the more dynamic skater of the ones you mention with his weaknesses being his spins. The other thing about all the guys with the consistent quads tho' is the likelihood of consistent injuries, especially later in their careers (e.g, Brian, Daisuke, Plush, and Lambiel). Evan mastered the quad in competition, but not consistently. He played it safe and left it out for the most part over the last couple of seasons. Evan and dynamic don't quite go together -- yep Evan is talented, athletic and he can do a version of soft and lyrical, e.g., his Ave Maria exhibition, plus some of his DWTS routines were quite good (I almost liked watching him better on the dance floor than I did on the ice). With Frank Carroll's guidance, Evan honed his competitive skills and learned how to effectively move his long-limbed body over the ice in a way that commanded space, but he consistently had trouble reigning in his flappy arm movements. His style was often frenzied, but again his team was successful in finding the right music and choreography to play to his strengths. Evan and triple axel also don't go together that well, but he managed to land them, if not technically perfect and graceful, and the judges cooperated by often overlooking his imperfections.

While medals are generally indicative of championship caliber, they certainly are no measure in every case of the success or failure of an athlete's career, especially in figure skating (which involves such politics). The men's field is extremely deep, so everyone who consistently place in the top 10 surely deserve a lot of respect. In any case, the medals that Johnny has won over the course of his career are certainly nothing to spit at.

IceAlisa
07-08-2010, 08:30 PM
Awww.

:fragile:

I was hoping Johnny would compete next season.

That was my reaction too. :(

igniculus
07-08-2010, 08:41 PM
IMO, Daisuke is the more dynamic skater of the ones you mention with his weaknesses being his spins.

Are you kidding? :confused: He has the deepest and hardest sit spin positions of the current field, also a beautiful layback too. Weak is the word I'd never use in the same sentence with Takahashi.

caseyedwards
07-08-2010, 08:43 PM
I am not surprised because of Weirs non-skating activities.

If Takahashi did not try quads I don't believe any flaws could be seen in his skating!!!!!!

stjeaskategym
07-08-2010, 08:46 PM
The only way I see Johnny coming back to competition is if his other projects don't pan out, including finding enough work as a skater. I'd say it's 50-50 at this point.

Yup... His 15 minutes of fame from the Olympics seems to be extended a bit. It will be interesting to see what Season 2 of his reality show is like without him skating competitively though. He'll need to really stay busy to keep that show appealing.

Of course, a retirement could be somewhat expected anyway... He's obviously been around for a long time and has had a pretty darn fulfilling career, even if he "only" has one World medal (still an outstanding accomplishment most people will never reach) and two strong Olympic appearances. Whatever he decides to do, I don't think he will have any regrets. If this is really the end, he went out on a high note, skating nearly his absolute best at the Olympics.

chipso1
07-08-2010, 09:21 PM
Are you kidding? :confused: He has the deepest and hardest sit spin positions of the current field, also a beautiful layback too. Weak is the word I'd never use in the same sentence with Takahashi.

Though they got better as the season progressed, I'd say Takahashi's spins are definitely his weakness. While they improved after the GP series, they were still pretty slow and not that well centered. I'm sure he's aware of this, though. ;)

alilou
07-08-2010, 09:51 PM
Oh dear, I think I may have to go lie down for a while, because I actually agree with pretty much everything in this Hersh column....

Yes me too. Can't believe I'm reading a Hersh article and not getting :mad:

Gil-Galad
07-08-2010, 10:11 PM
Really? I had no idea. No one has ever mentioned this before. :violin:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I also thought that I read those words from her before, I just had no idea that Jaana mentioned it that frequently.


I wish Johnny all the best on his future endeavours! I hope he finds what he seems to be looking for.

Mafke
07-08-2010, 10:16 PM
For an eligible skater continuing on at this stage (after the oly judges made it completely clear they don't like what you're doing and you're not capable of doing what they do like) you need

a) to be really rich (which Weir isnt')

b) to find someone else to pay the bills (which I'm not sure if he can do)

c) to be desparate (which I don't think he is).

I imagine he'll do some show skating where he has a following and trying to find some other field with a better (and surer) return on investment.

aftershocks
07-08-2010, 10:41 PM
Yep, I agree Hersh is fairly on target with most of his assessments in this article.

Particularly the last part:
"Every time I hear the melancholy of Saint-Saens' piano-and-cello favorite, I will see the Johnny Weir who could create an exquisite balance between entertainment and sport, between excess and subtlety, between artistry and athleticism -- all in less than three minutes. That picture was a masterwork."

Except I don't personally feel Johnny exhibited excess in his skating performances (except perhaps for his original Bad Romance costume), tho' I know others feel many of his costumes were in excess, they were actually creative and inspiring to many in the skating world. Poker Face routine was pure entertainment with exceptional athleticism and artistry, while most of his exhibitions were generally more lyrical and mesmerizing. My Way, Ave Maria, and Fallen Angel Trio, are absolute masterworks IMO.


Regarding other up-and-coming guys being fabulous and exciting. Yes, there is definitely a lot to look forward to still in watching the men's field, but it was Johnny who "made figure skating exciting" especially circa 2004-2006, and 2007-2008. Whoever agrees or disagrees, there's no doubt the men's field would not be exactly the same today, without Johnny's mold-breaking arc within it.

igniculus, Daisuke has definitely improved his spins, but no kidding, they have been his weakness (especially the position on his camel spin). The thing about Dai is his ability to soak up learning like a sponge, and to take artistic risks. His hard work at dance training and his eagerness to soak up knowledge and move out of his comfort zone have made him the most dynamic and entertaining skater in the men's field. So great to see Dai come back from injury like a supernova in flight.

The deepness of Dai's sit spin is definitely an improvement for him. But talk about deep sit spins with difficult positions, see the below, esp. at 2:06-2:14; 3:02... (actually 3 gorgeous spin passes, and just :swoon: re the entire performance).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf5t-4HFPOo

Ahhhh... and see how Johnny shrugs his shoulders at the end, seemingly unaware of what he had wrought.