PDA

View Full Version : Weir to sit out 2010-11 season



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18

i love to skate
07-17-2010, 11:22 PM
Sorry, I know this is OT, but I have to respond to this again. My great grandfather on my dad's side was tortured and killed by Hungarians during the war. My other great grandfather was killed in combat by Germans. Do I feel my sensibilities offended every time I see someone with a German or Hungarian uniform? Do I cringe when I see a Hungarian or German flag? No. My grandma has Hungarian friends. My dad used to do Hungarian dancing as a kid. We go to a Hungarian store to buy their meat products. My whole family was rooting for Germans to win the World Cup.


Everyone has a different personal experience. Just because you and your family do not cringe when you see a certain flag or have good relations with a certain Nationality does not mean that other people are going to have the same reaction. For some people, memories are simply too hard to forget or get past. There is nothing wrong with that - too each their own.

ETA:

He did the quad even though he fell on it 3 times in the warmup and what does Peter Carruthers say "he just needs a good shopping spree" to make him feel better.

See but to me, this is the image that Johnny put out there for himself. IMO, he didn't present himself as a competitor. During the 2006 year, he talked about his costumes, his love of fashion, and when he was asked to talk about his programs, he used phrases such as "I was too fluttery". He seemed to be wrapped up in the image part of the sport and kind of forgot about the competition side of the sport, which leads people to react to him in that way.

It really doesn't matter though. He had a successful amateur career and has a huge following of fans. Best of luck to him in the future!

jlai
07-17-2010, 11:23 PM
re: Lysacek's illness in Torin. I think the unwritten social rule is that you can talk about it only after you have done fairly well at an event. But if you don't do so well then shut up because it's whining.

REO
07-17-2010, 11:36 PM
I couldn't name a source either but I also remember some comments about "the Comeback Kid" schtick getting a tad old. Like no one ever had a bad short and came back strong in the free.They went a little overboard trying to promote him at that time. I said before that was when the Federation started pushing Evan and leaving Johnny to hang.

About the jacket. It was a gift from Totmianina. Even Johnny's mom says that he never thinks about the bad things that went on during Stalin and Kruschev. He loves the drama and mystery and glamor of Tsarist Russia. He thought the gift was great and he wanted to wear it. Was it PC? No, but Johnny doesn't do PC (thank you my boy) so there's no use getting all red white and blue about that. I agree with Igniculus that people's points of view about any political regime depends on how you were affected by that regime. There was no Soviet Union in 2006.

I can't remember when he made the remark about Republican type people. Was it before or after his Olympic competition?

REO
07-17-2010, 11:38 PM
re: Lysacek's illness in Torin. I think the unwritten social rule is that you can talk about it only after you have done fairly well at an event. But if you don't do so well then shut up because it's whining.

LOL So true.

REO
07-17-2010, 11:43 PM
Everyone has a different personal experience. Just because you and your family do not cringe when you see a certain flag or have good relations with a certain Nationality does not mean that other people are going to have the same reaction. For some people, memories are simply too hard to forget or get past. There is nothing wrong with that - too each their own.

But don't you think it's wrong to hold on to old hatreds? Also how can you hold today's generations responsible for the things their country did before they were born? People should remember but we need also to evolve.

i love to skate
07-17-2010, 11:52 PM
But don't you think it's wrong to hold on to old hatreds? Also how can you hold today's generations responsible for the things their country did before they were born? People should remember but we need also to evolve.

Some of the incidents that have happened to cultures or Nationalities are atrocious and unimaginable. I don't hold anything against people who cannot forgive or forget for such instances. I can absolutely understand how a person could hold onto hatred and pass it down through the generations. It would be nice but it is not realistic to think that people will simply stop remembering or forgive people for their past. That is why there are still wars going on around the world - hatred runs deep. To me, it's like hoping for World Peace - it is such a nice thought but chances of it happening? Not very likely.

psycho
07-18-2010, 12:10 AM
Everyone has a different personal experience. Just because you and your family do not cringe when you see a certain flag or have good relations with a certain Nationality does not mean that other people are going to have the same reaction. For some people, memories are simply too hard to forget or get past. There is nothing wrong with that - too each their own.

If you want to hold on to your memories, that's your choice, but don't expect people to walk on eggshells around you. If CCCP jackets offend you, that's fine. If Japanese jacket offends someone else, that's fine too. If American jackets make people break out in hives, that's their problem. My point is that Johnny should not be harassed for trying to see the good in every country, instead of holding on to hatred. He didn't go out there in a "Stalin is my Homeboy" T-shirt. He wore a CCCP jacket. There is much more to CCCP than Stalin and Khrushev, and if one can't see that, that's his/her own problem, not his.

See but to me, this is the image that Johnny put out there for himself. IMO, he didn't present himself as a competitor. During the 2006 year, he talked about his costumes, his love of fashion, and when he was asked to talk about his programs, he used phrases such as "I was too fluttery". He seemed to be wrapped up in the image part of the sport and kind of forgot about the competition side of the sport, which leads people to react to him in that way.

Sorry, I' ve read transcripts of press conferences and in-depth interviews from Johnny during that time period and he in no way portrayed himself as someone who cares more about shopping than his career. Just because Weir showed himself as someone who is a real person and not just a robot who competes, that doesn't mean he wasn't a competitor.

caseyedwards
07-18-2010, 02:25 AM
I see CCCP a lot. Also Hammer and sickles. They are fashion statments. There is political meaning and fashion meaning. Shirts with Che Guevera's face. Lots don't know Che but where his face. It's a fashion thing just like CCCP and hammer and sickles as well. Hammer and sickles means to some communist dictatorship and repression to others it is "wow cool design-very hip- I love it"

overedge
07-18-2010, 02:28 AM
Lots don't know Che but where his face.

What?

And if you think fashion meaning is separate from and different from political meaning - well, why don't you go out in a shirt with, oh, let's say, the face of a very well known politician from WWII whose initials are A.H., and claim that's a fashion statement. And see what sort of reaction you get.

caseyedwards
07-18-2010, 02:32 AM
"Wear" obviously - and some people are far too well known as evil that they can ever be a fashion statement. Che's no Hitler.

overedge
07-18-2010, 02:34 AM
some people are far too well known as evil that they can ever be a fashion statement.

So then political meaning and fashion meaning are not as isolated as you suggest.
You might not be offended by Che. Others could be.

Wyliefan
07-18-2010, 02:44 AM
"Wear" obviously - and some people are far too well known as evil that they can ever be a fashion statement. Che's no Hitler.

Well, no. He didn't murder quite as many people as Hitler did, although he clearly would have liked to.

Cheylana
07-18-2010, 03:17 AM
So Johnny goes to Worlds and wins the only US medal for which he is left off the World team the next year because he was dog sick at Nat's and still pulled 4th after a successful Grand Prix season. Even people who hold him in derision like Hamilton think he got rooked.
Actually he was fifth at that Nationals. And if I recall correctly, he wasn't dog sick at Nationals, rather he lost some training time leading up to Nationals due to getting sick while performing in Korea.

I don't understand why Johnny and his band of angels think it was so patently unfair for him to be left off the World team in 2009. I would have liked to see him on the team, but there is very little precedent for USFS sending someone who finished lower at Nationals over someone who finished higher. Other countries yes; US not so much. The only example I can think of is Kimmie getting the nod in 2008 over Katrina Hacker, who beat her by a whisper at 2008 Nationals and had no real international experience compared to Kimmie who, while struggling, was a former World Champion and a somewhat better bet to snag a top 10 finish. Much as I prefer Johnny to Brandon, Brandon didn't edge Johnny out by a hair; Brandon skated lights out with a quad and finished second, with Evan third and Ryan fourth. It would have been extremely awkward for USFS to bump both silver and pewter medalists to make room for Johnny. I really think they would have caught hell, from Tom Z and to some extent the media.

Also, I don't recall Scott Hamilton saying Johnny got "rooked," when asked he did express an on-the-spot opinion, right after the men's freeskate, that he thought Johnny deserved a spot on the World team, but I don't recall any wuzrobbing after the fact. Perhaps on further reflection he realized it was not do-able. I do recall Johnny saying on BGJW that he was screwed out of his World spot.

judgejudy27
07-18-2010, 03:29 AM
Yes, you're right. He was 3rd in the FS, but very close to Buttle. He could have made up those 7 or 11 points with a clean and inspired SP. ;)

You can do those what ifs for nearly any of the skaters in Turin not named Plushenko. Lambiel and Buttle made many more mistakes over the two programs in Turin than Lysacek and still easily beat him. A clean Lambiel and clean Buttle would blow a clean Lysacek out of the water in 2006. Lysacek's perfect free skate virtually tied Lambiel's free skate with 2 falls, no triple axel, and a shaky triple loop; and finished below Buttle's with a hard fall on his quad attempt, a doubled triple, and a hand down on a triple axel.

sk9tingfan
07-18-2010, 03:31 AM
Much as I prefer Johnny to Brandon, Brandon didn't edge Johnny out by a hair; Brandon skated lights out with a quad and finished second, with Evan third and Ryan fourth. It would have been extremely awkward for USFS to bump both silver and pewter medalists to make room for Johnny. I really think they would have caught hell, from Tom Z and to some extent the media.

While I really like Johnny's skating and artistry, I am not totally blind to his possible shortcomings from a choreographic complexity perspective and understand why he is often marked lower regardless of his performance level.

However, with respect to the situation being discussed:

1. Regardless of the quad, IMO, Brandon was overmarked at Nationals that year.
2. Brandon has never performed well in international competition and continues not to do well Conversely, Johnny has tended to do very well at international competitions including a bronze at the preceding Grand Prix Final and a Bronze at Worlds. Not an inconsequential achievement
3. USFSA did catch hell from Tom Z and that is one of the major reasons why Brandon was sent to Worlds in lieu of Johnny
4. Zaracjek's skaters did not do as well as they have in prior years as evidenced by Rachael's falling PCS and Ryan's relative inconsistency.