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View Full Version : Rank womens Olympic medal winning LPs since 1992



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neptune
07-12-2010, 03:52 AM
Unless one can make a good case for Chen being 2 places ahead of Nancy in the LP or at least beating Baiul in the SP, then it does seem that, based on the actual performances at Lillehammer, Nancy deserved the gold. However, the way I see it, Nancy was not really a gold-medal caliber skater overall. Plus she was gifted so many times throughout her career that maybe it was justice that someone else finally got gifted over her for once. ;) OTOH, Chen Lu was a gold-medal caliber skater (certainly much more so than Nancy or Oksana), and perhaps should have won the gold even back in Albertville. If I feel sorry for anyone, it would be Chen, not Nancy.

judgejudy27
07-12-2010, 06:13 AM
The funny thing is back in 92 everyone seemed to think Chen was the future of womens skating, and had a good shot of winning the 94 Olympic Gold if Kristi and Midori retired, and maybe winning in 1998 as well. People had her tabbed to become a dominant skater someday. It seemed to be a consensus her scores were being held down that year since she was only 15 and she had to "wait her turn" but her time would seem come. Instead she finds herself blown past by the even younger Baiul out of nowhere the very next year, and with the hype around "shaky" favorite Kerrigan, a rejuvenated and improved Bonaly, and other contenders like Sato and Chouinard, that Chen was almost lost in the shuffle. While she would rise to the top and win a World title in 1995 it never seemed she was ever again being viewed as the future of the sport once the younger Baiul passed her in the rankings with inferior skating. In later years the younger Kwan went past her fairly quickly, and then Lipinski took advantage of her absence for a year to cruise past her in the ranks too. Even her World title in 1995 was almost by accident, Nicole Bobek's gold medal was polished and waiting for her that year until she fell twice in the second half of her long program.

judgejudy27
07-12-2010, 06:25 AM
Unless one can make a good case for Chen being 2 places ahead of Nancy in the LP or at least beating Baiul in the SP, then it does seem that, based on the actual performances at Lillehammer, Nancy deserved the gold.

Sato's LP was excellent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u2Qk4Fd9s

As usual some minor issues on her jumps. Stepping out of a double axel, no triple toe attempt, shaky landings on both the triple flip and triple loop-double toe. Still 6 clean triples on 1 foot, very good spins (better than any of Bauil, Kerrigan, or Chen probably), the best footwork, great basics and speed as usual. She is the one you could use to split up Chen and Kerrigan in the LP if you really wanted to. And if you drop Baiul to 3rd in the SP behind Bonaly as she should have been the podium would have been: Chen, Kerrigan, Sato in that order in that case.

I cant say there is really an argument for Chen being higher than 4th in the SP. Her program was beautiful but her mistake was even bigger than Baiul's and as overrated as Baiul is her Swan Lake short was excellent overall and she actually incorporates proper elements she is forced to do by the short program rules which she ignores completely in her hot mess of a 93-94 long program. One Eurosport station actually implied Chen was held up to be 4th in the short, but that is only because of how overrated a young Szewcenko was by many because she was young, pretty, and charismatic (the Baiul syndrome).

asdf334
07-12-2010, 06:47 AM
I agree - I think Scott was just grasping at straws to explain her placement. I think Oksana's cuteness, backstory, and fanny wiggling are what won her the gold.

On a related note... It's always boggled my mind how some of the same people that use Baiul's charisma to sell her 94 LP to justify her win are the same people that call S&P's Love Story melodramatic and over the top.

query5
07-12-2010, 05:40 PM
i also forgot to mention- if you overlook tara's mistakes and not overlook michelles's, that is also a case of racism, why overlook her ur'and mishaps and not michelles, one is white the other is chinese american,
we as fans are capable of being just as racist as the judges,
we nail one skater for their mistakes we have to nail all, we overlook one skater mistakes for whatever reason, we have to overlook all.

neptune
07-13-2010, 01:42 AM
She is the one you could use to split up Chen and Kerrigan

That home wrecker! ;)


in the LP if you really wanted to. And if you drop Baiul to 3rd in the SP behind Bonaly as she should have been the podium would have been: Chen, Kerrigan, Sato in that order in that case

What good arguments could one use to justify putting Chen over Sato in the LP?

judgejudy27
07-13-2010, 02:01 AM
What good arguments could one use to justify putting Chen over Sato in the LP?

Chen's jumps were definitely stronger, she had 2 triple lutzes, all her landings were secure other than the triple flip, she did 7 triples (if you count the triple flip) and did the triple toe which Sato didnt even include.

Plus Chen's program while not exactly an artistic masterpiece like her future work was interesting and had strong choreography, while Sato's actual program as far as the music, choreography, and overall packaging was somewhat generic and forgettable just like Kerrigan's. Sato didnt have the spark in her skating yet she would gain as a pro skater.

neptune
07-13-2010, 03:14 AM
Chen's jumps were definitely stronger, she had 2 triple lutzes, all her landings were secure other than the triple flip, she did 7 triples (if you count the triple flip) and did the triple toe which Sato didnt even include.

That makes sense, but another poster up-thread said she did only 6 triples counting the triple flip. We know she did 2 lutzes, 1 toe, and 1 (attempted) flip. She must also have done a salchow and a loop, if she did five different triples. So, if she did 7, which other jump did she repeat?


Plus Chen's program while not exactly an artistic masterpiece like her future work was interesting and had strong choreography, while Sato's actual program as far as the music, choreography, and overall packaging was somewhat generic and forgettable just like Kerrigan's. Sato didnt have the spark in her skating yet she would gain as a pro skater.

Thanks for your assessment. In addition, how would you compare these three women in regard to spins, spirals, and footwork that night?

judgejudy27
07-13-2010, 03:18 AM
Thanks for your assessment. In addition, how would you compare these three women in regard to spins, spirals, and footwork that night?

Well Sato was definitely the strongest in footwork, stroking, speed. Sato is almost unbeatable in all those areas for any women. Of the top women Sato was probably the best in spins too. Kerrigan's spins were good except her camel spins. Chen's spins were much better than later years and reasonable except her combination spin which was quite weak. Spirals Kerrigan was probably the top even though she really only did one, followed by Sato. Baiul was the worst of the 4 in all those areas as well.

Actually I rewatched Chen again, I guess I overcredited her by a triple. She took out a triple salchow near the end she often did in her programs.

Sato actually ended up 5th in the LP phase behind Bonaly who had a semi disaesterous skate. The judging of the womens event was a joke.

smarts1
07-13-2010, 03:42 AM
That makes sense, but another poster up-thread said she did only 6 triples counting the triple flip. We know she did 2 lutzes, 1 toe, and 1 (attempted) flip. She must also have done a salchow and a loop, if she did five different triples. So, if she did 7, which other jump did she repeat?



Thanks for your assessment. In addition, how would you compare these three women in regard to spins, spirals, and footwork that night?

Lulu was supposed to do a triple lutz-triple toe (she's done it before then too!), but as we saw, she had an iffy landing on the first lutz so she simply did a triple lutz-step-double toe. That would have been the 7th triple.

PUNKPRINCESS
07-13-2010, 04:31 AM
1) Yu-Na Kim 2010 gold
2) Tara Lipinski 1998 gold
3) Michelle Kwan 1998 silver
4) Sarah Hughes 2002 gold
5) Shizuka Arakawa 2006 gold

Kwantumleap
07-13-2010, 05:28 AM
I mean it was flawlessly technically, but she made it seem like she was making sure the jumps were going to happen. It just lacked spark, fire, and excitement like Lipinski had. The excitement and exuberance just seemed to rush out of Lipinski, while Kwan held it in more.
I just love the double standard in play, 6.0 lenses to view Lipinski's jumps and choreography vs. Kwan in 98, CoP to judge most of the quality of what came before and after.

Spinner
07-13-2010, 05:45 AM
IMO Kwan lost the gold that night to the skate order.
I've always argued this too. This seems a simple concept to me, and I can see how the results would go either way according to who skated after the other--both brilliant performances.

I'll also note I get hives every time I see someone post about how judge #9 cost Nancy the gold in '94 by 0.1. Dude....there were 5 (crack-smoking) judges who put Oksana's hot mess of a program first. I'll say it one last time. Nancy WUZROBBED! :P

neptune
07-13-2010, 09:53 AM
Well Sato was definitely the strongest in footwork, stroking, speed. Sato is almost unbeatable in all those areas for any women. Of the top women Sato was probably the best in spins too. Kerrigan's spins were good except her camel spins. Chen's spins were much better than later years and reasonable except her combination spin which was quite weak. Spirals Kerrigan was probably the top even though she really only did one, followed by Sato. Baiul was the worst of the 4 in all those areas as well.

Actually I rewatched Chen again, I guess I overcredited her by a triple. She took out a triple salchow near the end she often did in her programs.

Sato actually ended up 5th in the LP phase behind Bonaly who had a semi disaesterous skate. The judging of the womens event was a joke.

I think the following marks are one possible set that could be justified for those three women:

Nancy 5.8 5.8
Chen 5.8 5.9
Yuka 5.7 5.9

In such a case, Chen would win the free skate, with Yuka second. Then Chen would get the gold, and Nancy the silver.

judgejudy27
07-13-2010, 11:08 AM
This is Sato's Olympic LP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u2Qk4Fd9s

Excellent performance even with a few shaky jumps. The best part is the ending where she flies to the finish and shows off her incredible speed, amazing footwork, and closes with an excellent scratch spin.