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olympic
07-07-2010, 09:29 PM
1. Yu Na 2010- an incredible skater skating perfectly at the olympics under CoP.

2. Kwan 1998 - I know that this was anti-climactic after her Nats. performance, but she executed 7 triples including 2 3z's and 2 3l's with only a wonky but completed 3f, utilizing grace and beauty, always hitting an edge or position. But Arakawa in '06 under CoP with more attack/jumps would be ahead of her.

3. Arakawa 2006 - only 5 triples, beautiful and silky smooth edges, a beautiful 3z-2l, 3-2-2 near the end, signature Ina Bauer. If she had skated with a little more attack and perhaps executed another triple or 3-3, I'd rank this ahead of Kwan '98 and only behind Yu Na, but 5 triples in '06 was just a little too conservative and paled in comparison to her '04 worlds performance.

4. Lipinski 1998 - I put this behind Kwan '98. She executed 7 triples including 2 3-3s, a 3l-3l and 3t-3s seq. at the end, which is probably one of the most ambitious program I've seen and that put her high on the list, but held back by the flutz, smallish skating and horrific axel technique.

5. Asada 2010 - 2 3x's made history. She made a program not suited for her finally work somehow. Skating a CoP program was harder than under 6.0, IMO. However, no lutz which is a trademark for ladies at this level and the fumbled jumps at the end marred the program. If clean, I would put only behind Yu-Na.

6. Rochette 2010- I give her credit for skating one of her best performances under dire circumstances with good technique, good music, great use of CoP which for me was tougher than skating under 6.0, so that is why I ranked JR higher.

7. Ito 1992 -I would rank this ahead of Yamaguchi in '92. She really had one glaring error - fall on the 3x which she did later in the program. The 2z-3t didn't break rhythm. Her artistry was decent by this point in time.

8. Kerrigan 1994 - 5 triples. Should've won in 1994. Only mistake was doubling the 3f at the beginning. But executed a 3-3, spread eagle-3s-2t, BO Spiral-3l, and 3z at the end of the performance, also probably had the best spiral up to that point in skating history. She was at her ceiling, though. Yamaguchi ['92] and Cohen ['06] both clean would be ahead of her.

9. Yamaguchi 1992 - 5 triples. 3z-3t to start but weak on edge jumps, falling on 3l and doubling the 3sal. She had quick rotations and got the job done, but I didn't think she had great or outstanding jump or spinning technique. If she would've just landed the 3l, I'd still have her ahead of NK '94. It's a shame we can't rank her '91 Worlds LP or '92 Nats 7 triple LP here. Those would be much higher

10. Cohen 2006 - 5 triples. Disastrous beginning on her two harder jumps keeps her lower in the rankings for me. Additionally, she flutzed and her hardest 3-3 was a 2-footed 3-3 seq., still she never really ur'd anything and the rest of the jumps were there, the great spins, the incredible spiral seq., and overall feel of the program utilizing CoP was majestic.

11. Chen 1994 - 5 triples. But only 3z-2t seq. due to bad landing on opening 3z, then hand down on her other hard jump - 3f. Decently executed otherwise. I have this behind Cohen due to weak spins, nearly non-existent spiral, and Cohen was doing everything under CoP. I wasn't a fan of Chen's posture, either.

12. Hughes 2002 - 7 triple winning program with 2 3-3s so low? Well, it has to do with IMO mediocre skating skills, the most horrendous flutz among them all, ur'd 3-3s and a front-loaded program. I rank this ahead of Kwan and Slute '02 just because she was picked as the winner by the judges. All the '02 performances weren't that great in retrospect, were they? OK. She had a pretty layback spin and 2x.

13. Kwan 2002 - 5 triples, a good spiral, and she did her hardest lutz combo in competition: 3z-2l, but the weirdest fall on the 3f, tight 3l, 2-footed 3t-2t only, and this performance overall for me was so 'phoned-in', perhaps this really stands out because she is Kwan and you expect greatness. I have this ahead of Slute '02 though.

14. Chen 1998 - This LP is saved by its emotional impact. It saddens me to say but the jumps were not that great - bad ur's on 3z and final 3t plus bad fallout of her 3f, plus her spins were never the best.

15. Slutskaya 2006 - I rank this ahead of Slutskaya 2002 just because 1) she had developed her power style by '06 and was secure in it, skating with gravitas and we no longer had to suffer watching her shake bees out of her hair. 2) It had mistakes, but was done under CoP which is more difficult. Still, you probably could interchange Slute '02 and '06

16. Slutskaya 2002 - This performance in retrospect wasn't so bad jump-wise. 2 big 3z's [but one may have been 2-footed], 3-2-2 seq. The only glaring jump error was the bad landing on the 3f [what's with the 3f for top ladies under pressure?] but like Kwan it was so 'phoned-in'. It was like the 2 of them were on automatic pilot. But what killed Slutskaya's programs in this time frame [prior to CoP] was when she was slow and tentative and that happened here. It completely ruined the overall effect because she didn't quite have her unique power style developed yet. She was skating to unsuitable bombastic opera music or pretty ballerina music in this time period

17. Kerrigan 1992 - This was one of Nancy's better-constructed programs but she lost all her hard jumps in the performance, popped the 2d jump of the 3-3 and had 2 other major errors that I can recall.

18. Baiul 1994 -Sad. I can't find anything good to say about this program.

briancoogaert
07-08-2010, 01:10 PM
IMO Kwan lost the gold that night to the skate order. Lipinski most certainly had more spark and excitement, but her skating after Kwan, with an electrifying skate that included 3+3 combos made for more comparisons. If Kwan had skated last that night, I don't think Scott/Sandra would have compared the two as they did. it was a matter of the draw order, I think. Her getting 5.9's even skating first, is a big shock. If she had skated last surely she would have gotten 6.0's, enough to win gold over Lipinski.
And Tara not skated right after Kwan, but after Bonaly. I think it helped her. ;)
Anyway, Tara skated brilliantly, and even as a Kwan fan, I see why she won.

iarispiralllyof
07-08-2010, 08:22 PM
I am so confused as to why so many people act as if yu-na is infinitely better than mao. yu-na was definitely better than mao the last season but they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but they're so close to me

I'm not going to argue artistry because that's always based on personal opinion and it's pointless to debate.

so yu-na has insane GOE on her jumps right? but mao can do both triple axel and triple-triples. they are about equal in spins although mao has superior extension so her spins edge out yu-na's by a bit, mao's spirals are also much better for this reason. (and yes I realize some ppl think yuna's speed on her spiral balances it out..even so they're about even on so many elements) their footwork and transitions seem about equal to me as well.

I realize everyone explodes about yu-na's "amazing artistry" but that aside (and it's not as if mao is a weak artistic skater) how is she so head and shoulders above everyone besides jumping really high and skating fast?

of course we're just discussing performances so obviously yu-na beats mao based on mao's multiple mistakes. as others have said mao's camp focused too much on just the triple axel when it was worth less than yu-na's triple triple

briancoogaert
07-08-2010, 08:42 PM
I am so confused as to why so many people act as if yu-na is infinitely better than mao. yu-na was definitely better than mao the last season but they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but they're so close to me
...
of course we're just discussing performances so obviously yu-na beats mao based on mao's multiple mistakes. as others have said mao's camp focused too much on just the triple axel when it was worth less than yu-na's triple triple
This has already been discussed to death during the season. This is probably not a good thing to discuss it again. YuNa won the Olympics and Mao won Worlds. Off season ;)

This thread is about your opinion about already skated LP's. How would you have ranked them ?

iarispiralllyof
07-08-2010, 08:56 PM
This has already been discussed to death during the season. This is probably not a good thing to discuss it again. YuNa won the Olympics and Mao won Worlds. Off season ;)

This thread is about your opinion about already skated LP's. How would you have ranked them ?

;P sorry I was a little late in joining this forum. in terms of already skated olympic performances yeah yu-na wins :yawn:

Jenna
07-08-2010, 09:03 PM
;P sorry I was a little late in joining this forum. in terms of already skated olympic performances yeah yu-na wins :yawn:

I think you may be bringing trouble upon yourself. :lol:

iarispiralllyof
07-08-2010, 09:35 PM
don't get me wrong, I do think yu-na is immensely talented

Mafke
07-08-2010, 09:37 PM
Comparing 6.0 and CoP lps is just as senseless as comparing 1972 and 1976 and 1992 lps....

my completely biased and non-objective rankings

6.0

1. Kwan 98 (I won't say it should have won but I enjoyed it the most)
2. Ito 92 (might have won the lp if it would have made a difference)
3. Kerrigan 94 (hate on hatorz, the best lp ever from an original and elegant skater)

CoP

1. Kim 10 (not only the best skater, but used the system better than other ladies)
2. Arakawa 06 (so much more there than the jumps)
3. Cohen 06 (after the first unfortunate minute the best she's ever skated)

Least favorite:

6.0

03. Kerrigan 92 (hot mess of an lp from an infuriatingly inconsistent lp skater)
02. Yamaguchi 92 (worst lp of a great champion during her time at the top)
01. Baiul 94 (worst skating skills ever for an ogm and worst program since Schuba)

CoP

the sample size is still too small so I'll just single out one

!. Slutskata 06. Bad outing from a great skater, nothing working like it should)

skatesindreams
07-08-2010, 11:48 PM
IMO Kwan lost the gold that night to the skate order. Lipinski most certainly had more spark and excitement, but her skating after Kwan, with an electrifying skate that included 3+3 combos made for more comparisons. If Kwan had skated last that night, I don't think Scott/Sandra would have compared the two as they did. it was a matter of the draw order, I think. Her getting 5.9's even skating first, is a big shock. If she had skated last surely she would have gotten 6.0's, enough to win gold over Lipinski.

I have always thought this.

judgejudy27
07-09-2010, 12:18 AM
It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.

Squibble
07-09-2010, 12:54 AM
It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.

It's also interesting that so many rank Ito's LP above Yamaguchi's. Only two judges on the Olympic panel did. Having re-watched the programs, I can just about see a convincing argument for ranking Ito higher. However, Yamaguchi had a triple-triple (and a 3Z-3T at that), harder, better spirals, spins, and footwork, and much better presentation.

As for Kerrigan 1994, she did have higher jumps than Yamaguchi and didn't put her hand down on any of them. And she doubled her flip -- a more difficult jump -- instead of her salchow. I can't think of much else she did better than Yamaguchi.

Triple Butz
07-09-2010, 01:52 AM
It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.

I don't know how the judges would've scored Nancy in relation to Kristi in that scenario but it just seems so unlikely that Nancy would be at her absolute best at the same time Kristi was pretty much at her worst. Kristi's "worst" was almost always better than anything Nancy could come up with. If Kristi had landed the loop (usually a solid jump for her), I personally would have put her much higher up on the list.

Not to go off on another tangent, but I think Kristi would have done really well in CoP. If all she had to do was skip the salchow and throw in an extra double axel (which she had planned anyway) she could have had a career as long as Kwan's. I think her lutz might get a (!) but her rotation was so fast and tight on all the jumps I think any minor UR issues would be cleaned up in practice.

smarts1
07-09-2010, 02:05 AM
I don't know how the judges would've scored Nancy in relation to Kristi in that scenario but it just seems so unlikely that Nancy would be at her absolute best at the same time Kristi was pretty much at her worst. Kristi's "worst" was almost always better than anything Nancy could come up with. If Kristi had landed the loop (usually a solid jump for her), I personally would have put her much higher up on the list.

Not to go off on another tangent, but I think Kristi would have done really well in CoP. If all she had to do was skip the salchow and throw in an extra double axel (which she had planned anyway) she could have had a career as long as Kwan's. I think her lutz might get a (!) but her rotation was so fast and tight on all the jumps I think any minor UR issues would be cleaned up in practice.

Definitely not under COP. Kristi is another skater who is/was not meant for COP. Sure, she's consistent, but there is nothing special about her skating and every girl who comes out on top in COP has some amazing ability in their skating (like Yuna's huge toe jumps or Mirai's spin ability).

museksk8r
07-09-2010, 03:32 AM
Definitely not under COP. Kristi is another skater who is/was not meant for COP. Sure, she's consistent, but there is nothing special about her skating and every girl who comes out on top in COP has some amazing ability in their skating (like Yuna's huge toe jumps or Mirai's spin ability).

:confused: How do you explain Evan Lysacek's success under COP then? I don't think you necessarily have to have anything "special" about your skating in order to succeed as long as you wisely play the numbers game, maximizing your allotted jump passes, packing triple jumps into the 2nd half bonus, loading your programs with transitions and numerous level 4 elements, and executing as cleanly as possible everything it is you attempt. Also, it's of utmost importance to be a strong, consistent SP skater to get the PCS in the LP to place where you want to be in the final standings.

judgejudy27
07-09-2010, 05:51 AM
I don't know how the judges would've scored Nancy in relation to Kristi in that scenario but it just seems so unlikely that Nancy would be at her absolute best at the same time Kristi was pretty much at her worst. Kristi's "worst" was almost always better than anything Nancy could come up with. If Kristi had landed the loop (usually a solid jump for her), I personally would have put her much higher up on the list.

Not to go off on another tangent, but I think Kristi would have done really well in CoP. If all she had to do was skip the salchow and throw in an extra double axel (which she had planned anyway) she could have had a career as long as Kwan's. I think her lutz might get a (!) but her rotation was so fast and tight on all the jumps I think any minor UR issues would be cleaned up in practice.

I think the only reason Kristi didnt stay longer was she did win that gold. I think if she had continued to miss it she might well have stayed in as long as Kwan. If she somehow missed gold in 94 as well after missing it in 92 I wouldnt be surprised if she even made it to Nagano to try again (not saying she would win of course but I could see her being there for a 3rd try).

I think Kwan is a different makeup IMO. I think she just loved to compete and didnt really like show skating or less competitive pro events as much and so even if she won in 1998 atleast would have stayed in for 2002. I am not sure if she would have stayed beyond 2002 if she won in either 98 or 2002 though.