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FigureSpins
07-29-2011, 08:01 PM
When the wands collided at the end of Goblet of Fire, the spells used by V's wand on Cedric, Frank Bryce (muggle caretaker) and Bertha regurgitate, followed by Lily & James. (Although there is some confusion with the order due to editing screwup)

Therefore, Voldemort had his wand when he returned to the forest after Quirrell's defeat. Wormtail was still playing rat and Crouch was still under house arrest. It is a puzzle.

The Lexicon says that Pettigrew (the traitor) retrieved the wand and hid it while he played rat for all those years.


The wands? James's and Lily's wands are unaccounted for. Peter Pettigrew went to the house and retrieved Voldemort's wand.


According to an unsubstantiated report from the 2004 Edinburgh Book Festival, JKR told someone that Pettigrew hid the wand while he pretended to be the Weasley's rat (TLC).

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/timelines/essays/timeline_potters.html


Wasn't Wormtail at the Potter's house after V killed them?Now that you asked that question, I believe that's what the movie showed - Pettigrew in the house. I just assumed it was when he became secret-keeper, but I guess he brought V to the Potter home that night. I'll have to go see the movie again, just to be sure! ;)

Finnice
07-29-2011, 08:59 PM
I saw the film today, with boy Finnices (now 19 and 16) who have grown with the books and movies. The boys wery angry with the changes, but liked the visual settings, espescially Gringotts.

I was happy how well Snape´s memories have been done, and that Rickman could finally act to his talent.

Anayway, I surviwed with only one hanky - because I just let the tears drop.

It will be interesting to see how big the HP books and movies will be after 20 years. I appreciate the books a lot, and even more because thay made so many youngsters read.

rfisher
07-29-2011, 09:19 PM
When the wands collided at the end of Goblet of Fire, the spells used by V's wand on Cedric, Frank Bryce (muggle caretaker) and Bertha regurgitate, followed by Lily & James. (Although there is some confusion with the order due to editing screwup)

Therefore, Voldemort had his wand when he returned to the forest after Quirrell's defeat. Wormtail was still playing rat and Crouch was still under house arrest. It is a puzzle.

The Lexicon says that Pettigrew (the traitor) retrieved the wand and hid it while he played rat for all those years.



http://www.hp-lexicon.org/timelines/essays/timeline_potters.html

Now that you asked that question, I believe that's what the movie showed - Pettigrew in the house. I just assumed it was when he became secret-keeper, but I guess he brought V to the Potter home that night. I'll have to go see the movie again, just to be sure! ;)

The book does NOT say that Pettigrew was at the Potter's. Hagrid arrived then Sirius. Hagrid gets Harry out of the rubble then Sirius arrives. Sirius tells Hagrid he'll take Harry, but Hagrid says Dumbledore insisted Harry be brought to him (well to Petunia) so Sirius gives Hagrid the motorcycle and goes after Peter because he convinced James to make Peter the secret keeper. There is nothing in the books to indicate Peter was at the house. He wouldn't have had to be in order to tell Voldimort the address. The book doesn't indicate exactly where Sirius and Peter meet up, but it's in an area populated with Muggles. It clearly wasn't Godric's Hollow or Sirius would have gone straight for him.

Moreover, the scene in the last movie where Snape was in the house holding Lily's body was not in the book either. JKR does not address Voldimort's wand during the years in Albania. Clearly, Peter does acquire it at some point. It could have still been at James and Lily's since the house was left as was and the memorial sign erected. I always thought this was a major oversight on her part especially with the whole wand lore focus in DH. There's no indication that Peter ever changed back into a human after he was acquired by Percy and then Ron so he didn't have the wand with him during that time.

FigureSpins
07-29-2011, 09:34 PM
The books also don't say Pettigrew was absent from the house that night. That is why I specifically gave the sources of "the lexicon" and "the movie" in my post. It's not canon unless it's stated in the book, but it's not impossible. Occam's razor and all that.


Although Scabbers could have just told V in writing or verbally where the Potters were hiding, it makes perfect sense that Voldemort would have brought him along to be sure he was telling the truth. It also makes sense that the rat would flee with the wand if he had been there that night. (Truthfully, the showdown with Sirius was always odd to me. It just seemed too slick for the character to come up with that move.)

I think Pettigrew brought the wand to V in the forest, based on the spells recanted in Book 5, and the unsubstantiated JKR comment to that effect. Several reliable HP fan sites reported the comment.

rfisher
07-29-2011, 09:54 PM
The books also don't say Pettigrew was absent from the house that night. That is why I specifically gave the sources of "the lexicon" and "the movie" in my post. It's not canon unless it's stated in the book, but it's not impossible. Occam's razor and all that.


Although Scabbers could have just told V in writing or verbally where the Potters were hiding, it makes perfect sense that Voldemort would have brought him along to be sure he was telling the truth. It also makes sense that the rat would flee with the wand if he had been there that night. (Truthfully, the showdown with Sirius was always odd to me. It just seemed too slick for the character to come up with that move.)

I think Pettigrew brought the wand to V in the forest, based on the spells recanted in Book 5, and the unsubstantiated JKR comment to that effect. Several reliable HP fan sites reported the comment.

Ah, but he wasn't posing as a rat until after he and Sirius met. There was no need for him to be an animagus after Hogwarts. There's no indication that Padfoot or Prongs were needed since Lupin wasn't at school anymore. Peter definitely brought the wand to Voldimort since he had it in Albania when Bertha was killed and when the Muggle was killed. Oddly, no other magic was performed with the wand until the big resurrection.

Remember that Sirius and Lupin discussed how Peter had not gone looking for Voldimort during the years between the the death of L and J and his escape because he was a coward and was waiting to see how things were going to go and the fact he was afraid of the death eaters. Remember that Sirius told him he'd heard them mumbling about him while he was in Azkaban. Since the gig was up posing as a rat (and he didn't know that Sirius was going to have to run for it), Peter was left with no choice but to try to find Voldimort himself. The Malfoy's sure as hell weren't going to do it and Peter had no place else to turn.

I don't think Voldimort would have brought Peter with him. He wouldn't have given Peter a second thought. Voldimort liked to work alone. That was always a major point in discussion about him. He never really included any of the Death Eaters in his plans. DD stressed this to Harry on multiple occasions how Voldimort held everybody in contempt and acted in total secrecy.

attyfan
07-29-2011, 09:55 PM
... . There's no indication that Peter ever changed back into a human after he was acquired by Percy and then Ron so he didn't have the wand with him during that time.

I got the impression that Peter didn't hide with the Weasleys until after he framed Sirius and killed the muggles. However, there is also no indication that Sirius found Peter immediately; I would think, though, that Peter could have placed the wand somewhere after V's "disappearance", but before Sirius caught up with him.

Also, did all the DEs know that Peter was a rat animagus? Somehow, I always had the feeling that Snape didn't know (at least not until after PoA).

FigureSpins
07-29-2011, 10:16 PM
I think only the Marauders knew about Peter's rat problem, lol.

Just to clarify: I don't think V took Pettigrew to the Potters' while he was a rat; not sure even he knew that Peter could do that at the time.
(I did write "Scabbers" but I really meant Pettigrew)

I do think they were both there that night because I could see Voldemort zapping Peter on the spot if the Potters weren't there when V arrived.
Plus, taking Peter for a ride meant he couldn't blab to anyone else and reveal V's plan. Pettigrew really wasn't trustworthy and if Sirius or Lupin found Peter and got him to spill the beans while V was doing the dirty deed, it would have been more complicated. Easier to take him along to lower the risks.

ETA: In PoA, Sirius says that he went to Pettigrew's hiding place to check on him that night and he wasn't there. Sirius uses his motorcycle to go to Lily & James' house to find it destroyed and Hagrid taking charge of Harry at DD's request. Sirius gives Hagrid the motorbike and goes out to hunt down Pettigrew. (That bike took Harry and Hagrid to and from Privet Drive for the first and last time.) Pettigrew had a wand behind his back, which is how he severs his pinky and blows the street apart before running into the sewer as a rat. Maybe that was when/where Peter hid V's wand?

Sirius is the only other animagus we see transform and he doesn't seem to need a wand for either direction - he changed at will during his stay in Azkaban. There's no way they let him have a wand in his cell.

rfisher
07-29-2011, 10:19 PM
I don't think they did. I was just reviewing the conversation in POA when it occurred to me that Peter and Sirius are clothed when they revert to human form. I wondered if Peter had his wand in his pocket, but he clearly did not. He used Lupin's wand to blast Ron and Crookshanks out of the way and Harry used expelliarmius. It was only then he transformed into a rat and escaped during the confusion with Lupin turning into a wolf. However, Sirius comes by a wand some time along the way. He surely didn't have one in Azkaban. And he didn't have one in the shrieking shack. He acquires one after he and Buckbeak leave. So, it's a mystery where Voldimort's wand was during the Albania years.

rfisher
07-29-2011, 10:21 PM
I think only the Marauders knew about Peter's rat problem, lol.

Just to clarify: I don't think V took Pettigrew to the Potters' while he was a rat; not sure even he knew that Peter could do that at the time.

I do think they were both there, though, because I could see Voldemort zapping Peter on the spot if the Potters weren't there when V arrived.
Plus, taking Peter for a ride meant he couldn't blab to anyone else and reveal V's plan.

He could have verified that Peter was telling the truth by looking into his mind. JKR doesn't give any indication Peter was along for the ride, but she doesn't indicate he wasn't. I don't think he was, but it's totally up to interpretaton.

skatemomaz
07-29-2011, 10:23 PM
Pettigrew did not go with Voldemort to the Potter house. In DH, right after Harry and Hermione escape Godrics Hollow, Harry goes into Voldemort's memory of the night he killed Lily and James, there is an entire scene describing Voldemort's actions and Pettigrew is not present.

senorita
07-29-2011, 10:39 PM
went to see it for the second time, this time cinema was half empty so i expanded myself in 3 -4 places, I cried again in snapes death and mostly in his memories, i feel like i wanted 5 more minutes of memories, they passed by fast. Young snapes and lilly are adorable! But my fav scene is his speech to students and his fight with McGonagall:swoon:
Did anyone minded how they pictured the horcruxe of Harry in the all white kings cross scene? I think that was a really uninspiring picture, this and how they had pictured Vold in Champer of Secrets are my worst pictures, so far away of what i had imagined.
what happened and Cuaron didnt continue with the rest of movies, does anyone know? I think he could have done a great Goblet of Fire.

michiruwater
07-29-2011, 10:47 PM
He just didn't want to.

agalisgv
07-29-2011, 11:28 PM
So was V's body found along with L and J?

rfisher
07-29-2011, 11:33 PM
No. Although, the book says he was ripped from his body, it doesn't say what happened to it. Maybe it exploded like they had it do in the movie. :lol:

agalisgv
07-29-2011, 11:41 PM
I was wondering how they knew he was dead if no body or wand was found. But they made no mention of a tomb for V either.