If B/A had won Worlds 2009...

[skateboy]

Just wondering... if B/A had won Worlds in 2009 (which, if Tanith had not fallen in the CD, they very well might have won), how would it have affected 2010?

Hard to imagine the World champs being dethroned at Nats--but who knows. How would B/A's status as reigning World Champs have affected the judging at Olys? Would they have been automatically put on the podium, and if so, who would have been left out?

[judgejudy27]

If B/A had won Worlds in 2009 they would have remained U.S #1 and won silver at the 2010 Olympics behind Virtue & Moir, repeating their performance from 2006. An ailing and continually declining Domnina & Shabalin would have been pushed off in favor of an improving Davis & White.

[olympic]

It may have given them confidence that would've even affected their SS. They probably would've won US nats, too.

[MOIJTO]

Even if they had won Worlds 09 they wouldn't have been on the podium at Oly's. Despite injuries and adjustments to programs for Ben's sake, their programs really deteriorated over a 4 year period. The year off hurt them and the coaching change hurt them.

[UMBS Go Blue]

IIRC Tanith didn't fall at 2009 Worlds; it was 2008 Worlds where that happened.

[Tak]

IIRC Tanith didn't fall at 2009 Worlds; it was 2008 Worlds where that happened.

Just what I was going to say. If they had won Worlds in 2008, I doubt they would have left Sphilband. How that would have impacted the next 2 years is anyone's guess.

[olympic]

Just what I was going to say. If they had won Worlds in 2008, I doubt they would have left Sphilband. How that would have impacted the next 2 years is anyone's guess.

Judging by Delschoes' marks, though, for their FD which was not their best of the season, it would appear that the judges would've favored them anyway over a mistake-free B/A at '08 Worlds. But without mistakes, I think B/A probably would've ended up in 2d and that may have set them up better for '09 Worlds.

yes, that may have forced them to re-examine any coaching switch but my understanding was that they felt 'crowded' in Michigan. So, maybe they would've moved anyway?

[Debbie S]

I'm guessing that if Tanith hadn't fallen in the CD, B/A would have won Worlds in 2008. Remember, DelSchoes didn't win the FD - I don't think they were the judges' favorites. I think B/A were the favorites going in (since DomShabs had withdrawn) but Tanith's fall not only took them out of favor in the judges' eyes, it also affected the rest of their performances - they looked off the whole comp.

I suspect if they won Worlds, they would have retired rather than continue on for the next 2 years in 'crowded' Canton. And I don't think they would have left Igor after winning a World title.

The year off hurt them and the coaching change hurt them.What year off? B/A missed Nats in '09 but I wouldn't call that a year off. They competed on the GP that season and competed at Worlds, and placed ahead of D/W. I do think they were on a downward slope, compared to D/W and V/M, but I also think their skating was better at Nats and the Olys than they got credit for. I think they should have won the CD at Nats this year, and they should have beaten DomShabs at the Olys.

[MOIJTO]

I'm guessing that if Tanith hadn't fallen in the CD, B/A would have won Worlds in 2008.

What year off? B/A missed Nats in '09 but I wouldn't call that a year off. They

Owning my disagree, they wouldn't have won in 08 either and you miss a nationals you miss a year give or take a GP.

B/A were worthy American champions, but they were passed by better skaters since 06, leaving Igor hurt them big time!

[kosjenka]

I don't think B&A could have won Worlds in 2008 or 2009.

In 2008, DelShols managed to pull 3 parts dances - which was what was needed for them to finally win a title. Plus there was a fresh new team that was on its high way - Tessa and Scott.

If they managed to win in 2009 - I think they still would have been beaten by the D&W at national level and that at the international level they might have won bronze at Olympics instead of D&S.

Still - 2 USA couples on the podium would be a little too controversial for our stoned judges :D hehehe

[mia joy]

I'm really amazed by how all of you would easily throw away D/W's whole improvement and award B/A a national title just because they would have been world champions... I mean, do you all say that, cause you believe B/A deserved that title more or because of the dirty FS politics to give titles for previous titles and not for what was actually presented on the ice? Do you really think B/A had better dances in the Olympic season than D/W? just curious.

I think if they had won the 2009 worlds (which IMHO D/W deserved more, but that was already discussed elsewhere, so whatever), they could have ended up third in Vancouver. There's no way they would have beaten D/W with the dances both teams had that season. Of course, assuming it would have been judged based on what was happening on the ice, not on the titles everyone had earned before.

[Debbie S]

Of course, assuming it would have been judged based on what was happening on the ice, not on the titles everyone had earned before.Are you sure that Nats and Olys were judged based on what happened on the ice, with D/W coming out ahead? ;)

I agree that D/W surpassed B/A in tech ability the past 2 seasons and I think D/W should have medaled at '09 Worlds (over V/M). But when you consider the judging system....both teams did Level 4 elements (except footwork , where both got Level 3....D/W may have gotten a Level 4 on one of them at Nats and Olys). It came down to GOEs and PCS, and like skating judging has always been, it's subjective. And unfortunately in ice dance, politiks play a role in scoring.

I'm not saying D/W didn't deserve what they got....but I also think B/A were underscored/placed.

[judgejudy27]

Judging by Delschoes' marks, though, for their FD which was not their best of the season, it would appear that the judges would've favored them anyway over a mistake-free B/A at '08 Worlds. But without mistakes, I think B/A probably would've ended up in 2d and that may have set them up better for '09 Worlds.

yes, that may have forced them to re-examine any coaching switch but my understanding was that they felt 'crowded' in Michigan. So, maybe they would've moved anyway?

I dont think B&A would have won the 2009 Worlds either without their fall in the CD. They were only 4th in the OD and 3rd in the FD. The scores in those werent going to change that much just because they fell in the CD. They might have edged V&M for 2nd there, but even then I am not sure. If you add 3-4 points onto their score they are still a couple points short of 2nd.

Yeah they were the favorites for the title after DomShabs withdrew but that doesnt mean things play out that way. Ice dance judges are unpredictable at the best of times. DelSchoes are not usually the judges favorites but they sure seemed to be that week.

Of course whether B/A finished 2nd or 3rd might have determined whether they left Michigan too, as if they finished 2nd over V&M they might have still felt like the #1 team there? Who knows really.

[judgejudy27]

I'm really amazed by how all of you would easily throw away D/W's whole improvement and award B/A a national title just because they would have been world champions... I mean, do you all say that, cause you believe B/A deserved that title more or because of the dirty FS politics to give titles for previous titles and not for what was actually presented on the ice? Do you really think B/A had better dances in the Olympic season than D/W? just curious.

I think if they had won the 2009 worlds (which IMHO D/W deserved more, but that was already discussed elsewhere, so whatever), they could have ended up third in Vancouver. There's no way they would have beaten D/W with the dances both teams had that season. Of course, assuming it would have been judged based on what was happening on the ice, not on the titles everyone had earned before.

I dont want to get into a drawn out debate which team was truly better last year as that seems to be a touchy subject here. I dont think the gap between them was anywhere near what the marks was, I will just put it that way.

The way ice dancing works if B/A were the reigning World Champions they almost certainly would have been kept as the #1 American. What country demotes a reigning World Champion to #2 in their own country in an Olympic year behind a team that had never yet medaled at Worlds. It just wouldnt happen. Especialy when the two teams are close in ability.

As it was with B/A's failure again to win the elusive World title, and D/W improving and scoring so well on the GP circuit (and higher than B/A last fall) the USFSA probably felt it was time to go in a new direction. I cant imagine the change being made in the U.S last year if B/A were the reigning World Champions though.

[mia joy]

The way ice dancing works if B/A were the reigning World Champions they almost certainly would have been kept as the #1 American. What country demotes a reigning World Champion to #2 in their own country in an Olympic year behind a team that had never yet medaled at Worlds. It just wouldnt happen. Especialy when the two teams are close in ability.


But then again, that only means FS is full of political games and titles are given based on who has better previous achievements, which is somehow depressing, don't you think? I mean, I get the point, it's possible it would have happened that way, but well, perhaps I'm just that naive little believer who foolishly thinks it should be judged by what's happening on the ice... :P