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Polymer Bob
06-22-2010, 01:31 PM
Yes, it's extremely annoying how elitist the system is and how it privileges the skaters coming from the host countries and those that are already at the top.

I think that the Season's Best scores would be a fair way qualifying skaters maybe, but only if B-Internationals were counted as well.

So that if some "random unknown skater" performs well at an event, it's actually registered and opens the doors for something better.

The B events would be one way. Another way for an unknown skater to break in would be the Four Continents, which is highly unusual in that every discipline in every country gets 3 entries regardless. Of course, that doesn't help the Europeans.

oubik
06-22-2010, 02:13 PM
It's more about who on the alternate lists is the easiest for the host country to get (specially when the witdrawals happen a a few days before the event starts). They need to think about costs and visas when it comes to their invitations. That's why Skate America always invites skaters that train in the US (like Tugba) and we see lots of oscure euro skaters at TEB who have no chance of being invited to another event.

The zars leave two spots open for NHK and SA. Mysliveckova/Novak were already invited to NHK last year and A&V were in Tokyo for the JGP Final, so they've already received the needed visas and are likely to be invited again. As for Skate America, Mallory&Rand are a shpillband team, plus she's american and they were there last year too so they should be the obvious replacement.

Czechs and Italians (and I think Estonians, too) do not need Visas for Japan.

oubik
06-22-2010, 02:15 PM
Yes, it's extremely annoying how elitist the system is and how it privileges the skaters coming from the host countries and those that are already at the top.

I think that the Season's Best scores would be a fair way qualifying skaters maybe, but only if B-Internationals were counted as well.

So that if some "random unknown skater" performs well at an event, it's actually registered and opens the doors for something better.

Yes and No and the same time. Look at last yearīs Golden Spin Ice Dance event or some of the NRW Trophy ID each year and you would see no reason for this events to be included in Seasonīs Best scores.

oubik
06-22-2010, 02:18 PM
IMHO, it's fairer this way. There is a very finite number of GP spots and if you just took the top of the potentials list, it would get caught into a vicious cycle: the same skaters get the GP events, which gives them the rankings/ability-to-have-a-season's-best to get a GP spot next year, which gives them GP spots, etc, making it even harder for others to break through. A skater who placed out of the top-whatever might technically qualify for the alternates list, but would be too low ranked to actually get a GP event and their ranking would drop, and they may not have the opportunity to get a season's best for that season, possibly making them ineligible for the GP the following season. If you open it up to not following the qualified-order, you can give a 50th-ranked skater an opportuntity to improve the ranking, score a high season's best, or get more international experience. GP counts for a lot in the rankings, and, unless you are guaranteed a GP event through Worlds-top12/Junior Worlds-top3/JGPF-top3/top-24, the best way to get a GP event in the future is to be on the GP and maintain a ranking.

It's not a perfect system by any means; I would love it if there were more ways to break onto the GP. But as it is, if you just went down the alternates list in order...well, there are 12*6 total GP spots in singles, 10*6 total spots in dance, and 8*6 in pairs. Of those, per discipline: 3*6 are host picks, skaters can get two events and you need two events to qualify for the GPF, and some skaters are guaranteed one or two events. If you just went down the alternates list, they may as well cap the alternates list 40 places higher than they do, because no one below a certain number would have a chance of getting a spot unless there are a lot of injuries and retirements.

So you think inviting Turoczy - Major over those three teams mentioned by Ziggy is fairer? :shuffle:

HisWeirness
06-22-2010, 06:45 PM
Well, the Pairs GP entries (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1886) are certainly going to change with McLaughlin/Brubaker splitting (had assignments to Skate Canada and Skate America) and the rumored split of James/Coia (had a host pick at TEB).

USFSA will be able to re-assign the Skate America spot to another American pairs team (making two USA pair TBAs now at Skate America). The empty Skate Canada spot could go to anyone on the alternate list.

chipso1
06-22-2010, 06:57 PM
Well, the Pairs GP entries (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1886) are certainly going to change with McLaughlin/Brubaker splitting (had assignments to Skate Canada and Skate America) and the rumored split of James/Coia (had a host pick at TEB).

USFSA will be able to re-assign the Skate America spot to another American pairs team (making two USA pair TBAs now at Skate America). The empty Skate Canada spot could go to anyone on the alternate list.

U.S. teams in contention for the 2 TBA Skate America spots:

Castelli/Shapir - competing at SC
Yankowskas/Coughlin - not likely, as they'll be in China the week before
Inoue/Baldwin - competing at NHK
Simpson/Miller - competing the next week in Russia

Dobbs/Jacobsen - probably not, as she'll be in China the week before
Zhang/Toth
Vise/Baldwin
Aaron/Cohen
Katz/Lynch? - if they're still together and have good summer results

MikiAndoFan#1
06-22-2010, 07:04 PM
the rumored split of James/Coia

Already?!

:eek:

sk8tingfan30
06-22-2010, 07:09 PM
:eek: I can't believe it. Is it confirmed that McLauglin/Brubaker are split? And James/Coia?????

ryanbfan
06-22-2010, 07:20 PM
:eek: I can't believe it. Is it confirmed that McLauglin/Brubaker are split? And James/Coia?????

McLaughlin/Brubaker: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100622&content_id=11445614&vkey=ice_pressrelease

HisWeirness
06-22-2010, 07:24 PM
And James/Coia?????
Not confirmed, but rumored.

From the French skating thread:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2796161&postcount=197

skatak
06-22-2010, 08:38 PM
Well, technically I'd say we're expecting a release that say that James/Coia are skating together...

Polymer Bob
06-22-2010, 08:40 PM
USFSA will be able to re-assign the Skate America spot to another American pairs team (making two USA pair TBAs now at Skate America). The empty Skate Canada spot could go to anyone on the alternate list.

Can Rockne still skate if he finds another partner?

DORISPULASKI
06-22-2010, 09:26 PM
Well, the Pairs GP entries (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1886) are certainly going to change with McLaughlin/Brubaker splitting (had assignments to Skate Canada and Skate America) and the rumored split of James/Coia (had a host pick at TEB).

USFSA will be able to re-assign the Skate America spot to another American pairs team (making two USA pair TBAs now at Skate America). The empty Skate Canada spot could go to anyone on the alternate list.


So Inoue and Baldwin could land one of the spots :lol: c'mon. It's funny. The youngsters keep quitting, and they keep going.

HisWeirness
06-22-2010, 09:44 PM
Well, technically I'd say we're expecting a release that say that James/Coia are skating together...
Well, the French Fed assigning the pair to TEB was a signal that they were an official pair (at least according to DG) at some time.


Can Rockne still skate if he finds another partner?
I hope Keauna does not possess some supernatural power to suck the skating ability out of her former partners. :P

If you mean on the GP this season, I think that is highly unlikely because Rockne would already need to be working with another partner on programs they could perform at summer monitoring comps to try to get a Skate America TBA spot. There was a provision in the 2009-10 GP announcement allowing new partnerships where at least one of the partners was a recent season Top 24 (SB or World Standings), but without a partner, I'm assuming that at least the Fall 2010 season is a scratch for Rockne.

Polymer Bob
06-22-2010, 09:53 PM
There was a provision in the 2009-10 GP announcement allowing new partnerships where at least one of the partners was a recent season Top 24 (SB or World Standings), but without a partner, I'm assuming that at least the Fall 2010 season is a scratch for Rockne.

Then would Rockne's bye to 2011 Nationals still apply with a new partner?