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DanceDanceDance
06-07-2010, 08:55 PM
I look at it from a different viewpoint:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. *…

If C/H don't see a change in their environment, why should they throw good money and effort after bad? Because something might be different in the future?

Sure there's unfairness in most job or competitive environments, but I commend them for putting their effort into a place where they have more chance to control their lives.

The simple answer to your question about why carry on when the environment is not in your favour, is that there are some people that love the sport enough to stand up to those that have been accused of corrupting the system.

There are some people that are aware of the fact that the Kerrs nearly gave up skating after years of being held back before 2003, but look how many fans they have around the world now.

We have all seen that some posters here are not happy with the discussions around the issues that have gone on behind the scenes, but like it or not, the people that have truly stood up for this sport have had to put up with a lot more crap than the readers here have had to endure.

I for one sympathise with everyone that wants this sport to be fairer, but have the most respect for the people that have gotten their hands dirty and lobbied to make things better.

C&M retiring from competitive skating is a direct symptom of the problems that have been discussed in this forum. An occasional unfair result is bad enough, but consistent poor treatment over multiple years is demoralising.

How can more up and coming couples be prevented from having to go through the same problems? Before we lose yet more talent?

I would seriously like constructive comments from anyone interested enough to put their mind to the problem. I hate all the slanging matches that have gone on as much as the next person, but I just don't think that letting lunatics taking over the asylum is a valid solution.

Morelli
06-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Quote:
Some of you may be upset that I shall no longer be chasing my goals of Olympic Gold, however I want you to realise that in actual fact, I feel a sense of enlightenment and relief. The realisation that I no longer feel at the whim of other people is a blessing. I have realised that happiness is not sought in the acquisition of medals, and indeed many of the champions I have met still seem lacking in contentment.

It is a shame for British skating fans that Mark and Chrissy won't be competing any more, but I applaud him for coming to this realisation at a young age. I spent years chasing the next grade in skating or the next competition win in ballroom as if life wouldn't be worth living if I didn't get it. I will never forget the relief I felt when my partner and I didn't make the cut in a ballroom competition and we realised that we no longer actually cared. We have enjoyed both activities and our lives so much more since we weren't at the mercy of a load of judges. You can go so far in a sport and then you have to ask yourself whether you really want what you are chasing that badly.

I wish both Mark and Chrissy much happiness in their lives. They have been wonderful competitors and ambassadors for the sport.

SHARPIE
06-07-2010, 11:39 PM
I would seriously like constructive comments from anyone interested enough to put their mind to the problem. I hate all the slanging matches that have gone on as much as the next person, but I just don't think that letting lunatics taking over the asylum is a valid solution.

Let's not eh? And just keep the thread on topic.

Good luck to Chrissy and Mark in whatever path their lives now take.

kwanfan1818
06-08-2010, 12:11 AM
They were sent to the 2010 Worlds, so I thought that showed some change and would be motivating.
If they felt that this was a true sign of support, perhaps. From Hanretty's statement, I get the message that they don't, and I'm really glad they are happy with their decision to not play and are going forward with their lives.

Timbuktu
06-08-2010, 12:44 AM
If they felt that this was a true sign of support, perhaps. From Hanretty's statement, I get the message that they don't, and I'm really glad they are happy with their decision to not play and are going forward with their lives.

You may not know that C&H were only told that they were definitely going to Turin a week or two before they went out there from what I understand. How are athletes supposed to make sure their physical and mental training is at the top of their game with that much notice? C&B knew at or shortly after the british championships that they were doing europeans and olympics, so it wasn't fair to keep C&H on tenterhooks all that time.


Let's not eh? And just keep the thread on topic.

Good luck to Chrissy and Mark in whatever path their lives now take.

Dancedancedance's comment WAS on topic. :lol: See the quote from Mark's part of the blog:


The world of competitive skating has shown me a great deal of politicking, corruption, bitterness and unhealthy competition. These factors make it difficult for me to find the inspiration or desire to continue pursuit in that field.

You and the other moderators have the power to close threads if they get out of hand, but why wouldn't you want healthy discussion about how to make things better with british skating? Isn't that one of the things that makes this forum so great?

There were nasty comments last year, and I got drawn into it more than I would have liked, but there seemed to be much nastier comments from the other side of the debate IMHO.

SHARPIE
06-08-2010, 01:36 AM
You and the other moderators have the power to close threads if they get out of hand, but why wouldn't you want healthy discussion about how to make things better with british skating? Isn't that one of the things that makes this forum so great?



Because time and time again, it hasnt been a healthy discussion and has ended up with emails received to the admin team on several occasions that I dont want a repeat of.
I dont want to have to close another thread (esp relating to a retired team) so let's just leave that type of discussion elsewhere.

End of subject from me but this thread is being closely watched.

Timbuktu
06-08-2010, 01:48 PM
Because time and time again, it hasnt been a healthy discussion and has ended up with emails received to the admin team on several occasions that I dont want a repeat of.
I dont want to have to close another thread (esp relating to a retired team) so let's just leave that type of discussion elsewhere.

End of subject from me but this thread is being closely watched.

Where would you suggest that these issues get discussed? There is no facility for questions or complaints to be aired on the NISA website and the iSKATE magazine is owned by a director of the board and all content is only included on the editor's say so.

Team GB has now lost a very talented couple because of what has gone on behind the scenes. If this website is a serious forum for genuine fans of skating to share their views about the sport, then it will continue to generate the interest it does and whatever income for the owners of the site.

It is probably annoying for the moderators to deal with complaints, I can see that. Is that as big a deal as talented and dedicated athletes getting treated like something under the shoe of the governing body? I guess each reader can offer their own view on that question.

I suspect that the moderators of this site had complaints from people that supported the board in answer to the allegations levelled at them, as well as complaints from people who had been slagged off by the supporters of the board.

The thing is, the treatment of Chrissy and Mark finally got unbearable to the point where they decided to end their competitive career. So if this website supports the people that have defended NISA and their tactics of making things so messy in this forum that the threads get closed in order to prevent people finding out about what NISA is guilty of, then the website's credibility could also come under question.

I would hate for that to happen because it is a great website for enthusiastic fans of skating around the world to share their views.

Sylvia
06-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Where would you suggest that these issues get discussed?
On an independent Internet forum created for this purpose? Or start a private email list/group for concerned NISA members who would like to work on improving and/or changing the system from within?

Best wishes to Christina and Mark!

Asli
06-08-2010, 02:42 PM
Timbuktu, as far as I know NISA is not the only national federation with questionable tactics and lots of politicking going on. Actually this is the norm, not the exception. Every now and then we read on the FSU about how many federations interfere with the outcome of their national championships and/or use questionable criteria to choose their national teams.

Yet it is possible to mention the names of French, Russian, German or Italian skaters and discuss their skating without the thread becoming a war over the actions of their respective federations. Why shouldn't this be possible for the skaters from the UK? Peace.

Timbuktu
06-08-2010, 03:12 PM
Timbuktu, as far as I know NISA is not the only national federation with questionable tactics and lots of politicking going on. Actually this is the norm, not the exception. Every now and then we read on the FSU about how many federations interfere with the outcome of their national championships and/or use questionable criteria to choose their national teams.

Yet it is possible to mention the names of French, Russian, German or Italian skaters and discuss their skating without the thread becoming a war over the actions of their respective federations. Why shouldn't this be possible for the skaters from the UK? Peace.

Funnily enough, I totally agree with you.

I suspect that everything blew up in britain last year because there was an election in parallel with two legal actions, one of which ended with NISA losing in the High Court.

I have no idea whether whether people in support of other federations get involved with the debate on FSU because I don't read all the threads, but it was pretty clear that current NISA board members contributed to the debate here whether it was directly or indirectly.

Either way, the politics was specifically mentioned by Mark as contributing to his decision, so ought to be relevant for discussion at least up to a point. If the subject has been exhausted then fair enough, but if people are frightened to post their views in case the thread gets closed then that is another matter.

I personally don't want trouble for the people that moderate this site or for any of the readers and contributors. But it is upsetting when people that want to represent the country get treated so badly.

Ziggy
06-08-2010, 03:30 PM
Timbuktu, I am not a moderator but the point Sharpie tried to make (I think) is that if remarks that are seen as libelous are made in a thread, then FSU is ultimately responsible for it and when contacted about it, the admins have no choice but to close the thread. Otherwise there could be legal repercussions to that.

DanceDanceDance
06-08-2010, 05:00 PM
Timbuktu, I am not a moderator but the point Sharpie tried to make (I think) is that if remarks that are seen as libelous are made in a thread, then FSU is ultimately responsible for it and when contacted about it, the admins have no choice but to close the thread. Otherwise there could be legal repercussions to that.

Avoiding legal action is an entirely reasonable thing to do. From what little I have seen about people on here complaining about other Federations, I'm not aware of the Federations worrying about what is said here in this site. Is that because they don't feel threatened by what is said here, or because they have less to worry about?

Timbuktu isn't alone in wanting to see improvements in British skating by talking about it and doing what can be done to carry the ideas through where possible.

Perhaps this site is not the best place to debate these issues, but considering it is a forum for sharing opinions and ideas then it seems to me concerning that the Association in this country is so sensitive over what people want to say here.

I don't want problems for anyone either, but when people have asked legitimate questions about what goes on then isn't that part of what this site is designed for? In an ideal world the people that have had allegations made about them would stop doing serious things wrong.

If there were only fun things to chit-chat about then the world would be a much more pleasant place. Also, C&H would probably still have the desire to go as far as they are able in their competitive career.

Paragraph3s
06-08-2010, 07:30 PM
Timbuktu, I am not a moderator but the point Sharpie tried to make (I think) is that if remarks that are seen as libelous are made in a thread, then FSU is ultimately responsible for it and when contacted about it, the admins have no choice but to close the thread. Otherwise there could be legal repercussions to that.

I have stayed out of this discussion for some time because the last time I made a comment one of the more regular posters gave me some negative feedback. But those that were standing up for fair play last year, and there were quite a few at the time, have been proven to be right. We have lost a wonderful couple and it is so sad that there weren't more people willing to support those people that were trying to spread the news about what has gone on at the top.

Thanks to whoever posted the detailed list of issues recently, I was able to see more of what so many people have been upset about the way skating is being run in the UK. I didn't see anything libellous in that list, but it was still deleted.

Someone was scared about the content of those questions gaining a wider audience, and it is hardly a surprise when you see such a comprehensive list of mismanagement or deliberate manipulation of the rules.

Is anything else happening to find out why so many rules weren’t followed? And if not, surely we should be discussing how to prevent such a travesty from happening again.

As for closing an entire thread when someone gets too aggressive, why are you suggesting that this is the only option when individual posts have been deleted in the past?

kwanfan1818
06-08-2010, 08:04 PM
The Admins here have day jobs and other things in their lives besides constantly monitoring threads for potentially exploding dumps, especially on topics -- explicit or by drift -- that have produced exploding dumps each time they are discussed.

Morelli
06-08-2010, 09:25 PM
Timbuktu, as far as I know NISA is not the only national federation with questionable tactics and lots of politicking going on. Actually this is the norm, not the exception. Every now and then we read on the FSU about how many federations interfere with the outcome of their national championships and/or use questionable criteria to choose their national teams.

Yet it is possible to mention the names of French, Russian, German or Italian skaters and discuss their skating without the thread becoming a war over the actions of their respective federations. Why shouldn't this be possible for the skaters from the UK? Peace.

It was in my mind on my last post on this thread to say that Mark's comments on his website about politicking etc. could easily apply in many other skating federations and probably many other sports. I don't think you can get away from it and it you want to get to the very top, you have to weigh up your ambitions against how much you are prepared to be controlled by others. As with many things, I think it has got worse since money was more of an issue. There are more competitions to travel to, costs are higher, NISA people are under pressure from those organisations funding skating to provide the results, and mistakes perhpas get made. The people running associations are only human after all.

I really don't know why the British threads always turn into a war. Maybe it is to do with the nature of British people, or that we are used to the slanging matches of our politicians and the way things are presented in the media, and that makes us more likely to speak our minds without thinking of the consequences.