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Theatregirl1122
06-07-2010, 12:45 AM
I'm really confused by the fact that some people here seem to be absolutely convinced that Jamie and David never even tried to make it work and that if only they'd just stopped being selfish and tried a little bit they could have made it work. We don't know anything about their relationship. It is completely unfair to simply assume that they did not make their marriage work. Just because you try doesn't mean that you will succeed.

i love to skate
06-07-2010, 12:47 AM
But children of low-conflict divorces actually appear to have more longterm problems than do children from low-conflict homes where the parents stay together in spite of not being happy. This is well documented if you care to look it all up.

It is also well documented that the younger the child is when the divorce occurs the better adjusted the child will be be over the long term. Using Jesse for example, the separation occurred when he was just over a year old so he will not know any different than his parents living apart. That will be his life as he knows it.

Children are very intuitive and pick up on even low levels of marital satisfaction as well so it is not as if a child has no ill effects when their household involves an unhappy marriage. Either way, there will be issues for the child.



I have no idea what level of conflict Jamie and David experience and my point really isn't about them, but is more about this rather glib "It's better for the kids if the parents divorce," because there's quite a bit of evidence that this isn't necessarily so.

It definitely is not a cut and dry issue but there is also evidence that shows it is better for the children if the parents divorce. Like most issues, academic scholars can argue back and forth debating which is better for the child. It comes down to which side of the fence you fall on, and of course individual experience, which determines how you view a situation.

The Observer
06-07-2010, 12:53 AM
Of course I'm envious of her having a bite of that beefy hunk. :swoon:

He's hunky, but what's the point of being with a man if he's a cheater?

Pratfall
06-07-2010, 12:59 AM
i love to skate:P /\ I have a lot to say, don't I ? ..you'll get me accused of plagiarism..;)


Observer - can you hum afew bars of ,

Don't save your kisses, pass them around
You'll find my reason is logically sound
Who's gonna know that you passed them around
A hundred years from today...

come to think of it ,that might make a good show number.:D

Prancer
06-07-2010, 12:59 AM
It is also well documented that the younger the child is when the divorce occurs the better adjusted the child will be be over the long term. Using Jesse for example, the separation occurred when he was just over a year old so he will not know any different than his parents living apart. That will be his life as he knows it.

And again, I was not addressing the issue of Jamie and David's situation, but rather the broader issue of whether divorce is always better for children of unhappy parents.


Children are very intuitive and pick up on even low levels of marital satisfaction as well so it is not as if a child has no ill effects when their household involves an unhappy marriage.

Or maybe people just like to tell themselves that. It seems to me that most children are most concerned with their own level of happiness and are only concerned about their parents' happiness as it directly affects the children.

That is not selfishness, BTW; it's developmentally appropriate for most years of childhood. And it is also supported by a lot of evidence that says that the most important element in a child's future adult relationships is not the parents' relationships with each other, but the closeness (or lack thereof) of the parents' relationship with the child.


It definitely is not a cut and dry issue but there is also evidence that shows it is better for the children if the parents divorce.

Yes, as I said, there are situations where it is definitely better.


Like most issues, academic scholars can argue back and forth debating which is better for the child. It comes down to which side of the fence you fall on, and of course individual experience, which determines how you view a situation.

The entire purpose of doing studies is to eliminate the issue of individual experience and opinion, and analyze evidence objectively to reach a conclusion. Obviously, a study cannot predict individual behaviors or outcomes; OTOH, individual experience cannot be used to determine any sort of norm. It is no more valid to say that divorce is a good thing for children because I'm glad that my parents got divorced than it is to say that it's a bad thing for children because my parents' divorce was terrible for me; both experiences are equally valid, but neither can used to determine an overall conclusion about the issue.

The Observer
06-07-2010, 01:16 AM
I think most people would agree that people in really bad marriages should get divorced, and that is why the law was changed several decades ago to allow people to get out of bad marriages that they were not previously able to do so.

But there has been a very high rate and casual attitude towards divorce over the past several decades as well. A lot of research does show that children of divorce are at greater risk of doing badly in school, getting involved with drugs and risky sex, and of later getting divorced themselves.

Ziggy
06-07-2010, 01:17 AM
He's hunky, but what's the point of being with a man if he's a cheater?

Some of us don't care about bourgeois morality. :hat1: ;)

i love to skate
06-07-2010, 01:23 AM
Or maybe people just like to tell themselves that. It seems to me that most children are most concerned with their own level of happiness and are only concerned about their parents' happiness as it directly affects the children.

That is not selfishness, BTW; it's developmentally appropriate for most years of childhood. And it is also supported by a lot of evidence that says that the most important element in a child's future adult relationships is not the parents' relationships with each other, but the closeness (or lack thereof) of the parents' relationship with the child.

There are developmental stages in which children are egocentric but this does not mean that children are unaware of anything that is going on around them, though. As the child grows older and the marital discord/dissatisfaction continues, the child will better be able to view and understand what is going on.

Marital relationships are the first indicators and models of how to act/behave in a relationship and also shows the child as to what a relationship should look like, so the children can be impacted and hold this ideal in their mind. This type of relationship can be repeated in their own relationships. It is also been shown in studies that marital dissatisfaction is related to a slew of behaviour problems in children.




The entire purpose of doing studies is to eliminate the issue of individual experience and opinion, and analyze evidence objectively to reach a conclusion. Obviously, a study cannot predict individual behaviors or outcomes; OTOH, individual experience cannot be used to determine any sort of norm. It is no more valid to say that divorce is a good thing for children because I'm glad that my parents got divorced than it is to say that it's a bad thing for children because my parents' divorce was terrible for me; both experiences are equally valid, but neither can used to determine an overall conclusion about the issue.

In studies, yes of course individual experience should not come into play - I was not implying that it should. However, when posting on a message board personal opinion and experience affect what you will be posting and how you view a situation.

Prancer
06-07-2010, 01:30 AM
Marital relationships are the first indicators and models of how to act/behave in a relationship and also shows the child as to what a relationship should look like, so the children can be impacted and hold this ideal in their mind. This type of relationship can be repeated in their own relationships.

I guess that depends on whom you are asking:

How we learn to form and maintain romantic, intimate relationships has been a focus of researchers for years. The common belief has been that children learn to relate later in life to romantic partners by observing their own parents.

But that's not entirely true, according to Rand Conger, PhD, a sociology professor at Iowa State University and a researcher with ISU's Institute for Social and Behavioral Research in Ames, Iowa. The romantic choices and behaviors of young adults are influenced more by the one-to-one relationships they had as children with their parents than with the observations they made of their parents' marriages, he has found.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51158


It is also been shown in studies that marital dissatisfaction is related to a slew of behaviour problems in children.

Again, I haven't disputed that that is the case; what I have said is that studies have shown that it's the level of dissatisfaction and the way it is demonstrated that makes a difference.


In studies, yes of course individual experience should not come into play - I was not implying that it should. However, when posting on a message board personal opinion and experience affect what you will be posting and how you view a situation.

Yes, it will. And........?

Perky Shae Lynn
06-07-2010, 01:43 AM
I'm really confused by the fact that some people here seem to be absolutely convinced that Jamie and David never even tried to make it work and that if only they'd just stopped being selfish and tried a little bit they could have made it work. We don't know anything about their relationship. It is completely unfair to simply assume that they did not make their marriage work. Just because you try doesn't mean that you will succeed.I think a lot of these assumptions are based on rumors of affairs by both parties during their relationship.

i love to skate
06-07-2010, 01:45 AM
I guess that depends on whom you are asking:

How we learn to form and maintain romantic, intimate relationships has been a focus of researchers for years. The common belief has been that children learn to relate later in life to romantic partners by observing their own parents.

But that's not entirely true, according to Rand Conger, PhD, a sociology professor at Iowa State University and a researcher with ISU's Institute for Social and Behavioral Research in Ames, Iowa. The romantic choices and behaviors of young adults are influenced more by the one-to-one relationships they had as children with their parents than with the observations they made of their parents' marriages, he has found.

ETA:
Yep, it does matter who you ask - two view points to everything right? In that same article:

Despite the research, Robert Maurer, PhD, a psychologist at Santa Monica-UCLA Medical Center, who often counsels divorcing couples with children,"isn't convinced that parents' marital behavior can be ruled out as a blueprint for their offspring."

"When your partner walks in," Maurer often asks married couples he counsels, "does your face light up, or does your look say the warden has just come onto the cellblock?" He tells them their children can't help but notice these interactions and form some opinions about their own goals for a romantic relationship when they become adults".

I do think both parenting style and marriage models affect future relationships.


Yes, it will. And........?

Perhaps that's why people are posting that it is better for the children if parents divorce.

Prancer
06-07-2010, 01:56 AM
I'm really confused by the fact that some people here seem to be absolutely convinced that Jamie and David never even tried to make it work and that if only they'd just stopped being selfish and tried a little bit they could have made it work. We don't know anything about their relationship. It is completely unfair to simply assume that they did not make their marriage work. Just because you try doesn't mean that you will succeed.

Given the stakes, I would think they worked very hard at making their marriage work out.


ETA:
Yep, it does matter who you ask - two view points to everything right? In that same article:

"isn't convinced that parents' marital behavior can be ruled out as a blueprint for their offspring."

"When your partner walks in," Maurer often asks married couples he counsels, "does your face light up, or does your look say the warden has just come onto the cellblock?" He tells them their children can't help but notice these interactions and form some opinions about their own goals for a romantic relationship when they become adults".

Which goes back to the issue of the difference between subjective and objective evidence, not to mention degree of conflict.


Perhaps that's why people are posting that it is better for the children if parents divorce.

I never doubted that for a moment.

Blade1
06-07-2010, 02:07 AM
I've been reading this thread, and I'm starting to feel that I'm watching Dr. Phil right now

Lanie
06-07-2010, 02:13 AM
I've been reading this thread, and I'm starting to feel that I'm watching Dr. Phil right now

Yeah, seriously. :rofl:

I'm the child of divorced parents. I was three. It did a number on me but it was better than them staying married thanks to the alcoholism and violence. I hope Sale and Pelletier do a better job of the divorced parents thing than my parents did. Poor kid.

piano18
06-07-2010, 02:33 AM
:rofl: Rex's mind goes to the most inapropro places sometimes.....

North Pole North Pole!!