PDA

View Full Version : Wagner Just Misses Out on Olympic Dream



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 [6]

RD
06-03-2010, 05:37 PM
I forgot that apparently she placed above Mirai in the long program. THAT is almost as much of a travesty as Rachael winning the title of Mirai.

Seriously?? You've got to be kidding. honestly- the judging overall at this event was kinda messed up...IMO of course- but at least the right team was selected.


With that said, obviously it sucked hard core for her to win the bronze but be left out of the Olympics since we only had two spots. Anyone would be devastated. Her placement was entirely deserved, though, and I don't think she did anything at Nationals to make a convincing case that she belonged at the Olympics.

I can agree with that.


I still remember her quotes from last fall when she was all pumped up over her GP performances....she alluded to the fact that she thought she could end up a surprise winner at the Olympics. OMG! :lol: Talk about deluded.

I know you have to have somewhat of an ego or truly believe you are the best to make it in an elite sport, but I still think it was ridiculous that she really thought she should be placed on the Olympic team ahead of Mirai.

Now here's where I DON'T agree. Did she EVER say that she thought she could be "a surprise winner" at the Games? Or that she thought she should have gone to the Olys over Nagasu? 'Cause I must have missed it. It's one thing to quote, another to (mis)interpret...

pinky166
06-03-2010, 05:41 PM
I know I am in the minority here, but I feel the Olympic scores were inflated. And that is rare for an ISU judged event. As much as I like Mirai and Rachael, I don't think we should look at Olympic scores and think this is how they will score in the future.

The Olympics scores were definitely inflated, but I felt that they went back to normal at Worlds. And actually, I do think it means we can expect Mirai to score well from here on in, because she did get 70 for her SP at Worlds with the 3-3 downgraded, and in the LP it was a bit of a mess, but she still scored 105, which is the best score she had gotten in a long time save the Olympics.

If you look at the protocols, Mirai in the FS made 4 big mistakes (3lz step out, 3lz UR and +seq deduction, 2a UR and fall, 3t UR) and each cost her 3-5 points, so without the mistakes she would have been in the 120-125 ish range.

Also her PCS are telling, at the Olympics she got 60+ for PCS in the LP, and at Worlds in the LP where she had a not great performance, her PCS were still 57+, and 30+ for the SP where she skated well.

Ashley this entire season has gotten PCS in the mid 20s for her SP and low to mid 50s for her LP.

For Rachael, it's pretty much the same deal, her PCS at both Olympics and Worlds were lower than Mirai's.

For Alissa, it's also pretty much the same deal, her PCS are always mid 20s for SP and mid 50s for LP internationally, and she has all her technical issues on top of it.

Worlds showed us that Mirai is competitive with the top. Had her 3-3 in the SP been ratified, she would have scored 73ish, only a few points lower than Yuna's world record scores and equal to Mao's clean ratified 3a SP. Had she skated clean in the LP, her PCS would have been in the 60s, comparable with Lepisto, Ando, Asada.

Finally, Ashley's been scoring mid 50s for her SP internationally all season. That's what Gao has been scoring this season at junior competitions, even Kawamura with her 2f scored 50+ twice at junior competitions. Murakami, Ovcharova, and Shelepen have scored significantly higher than Ashley has in the SP, also at junior competitions, and I think everyone agrees all three girls have a lot to work on. I really think that puts things in perspective. The international judges just don't seem to regard Ashley's skating as highly as the USFSA does.

Stephanie
06-03-2010, 06:43 PM
Here's the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/27/sports/othersports/27skate.html?_r=1

A couple of quotes:


ďItís really amazing that Iíll be the only one from the U.S. [at the Grand Prix Final] because I think it gives me an upper hand at nationals...Iím excited because I think it gives me a huge confidence boost and gives me an advantage and an edge over everyone else.Ē


ďAmazing things happen at the Olympics...Look at Sarah Hughes and Tara Lipinski, who were both underdogs and won anyway. I really think the winner of the gold medal will be whoever skates the best on that day. Someone will surprise everyone. I really hope it is me.Ē

RD
06-03-2010, 06:50 PM
Thanks for the actual quotes.

As for the first quote, I can see how some skating fans might interpret that as having a "big mouth" but I don't think that comment is out of place for an athlete. (IMO, she had a valid point as well.) The second quote is just her HOPING that she could pull it off (although looking at the raw scores, she'll need quite a bit of improvement PLUS all the help she can get, probably even more help than Sarah got in '02). Also, hard to know the context in a newspaper article where quotes are handpicked. Better to hear the interview (or better yet, see it).

I guess I'm just sick and tired of the same old boring "I just want to skate my best" BS we hear all the damn time when I'm sure most (if not all) are thinking along the lines of what Wagner said above, of course, depending on the situation. And remember last year was an Oly year, with more articles than usual on FS. This year I'm sure will be much quieter- still, that said, once you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk- goes for anyone and everyone.

Anyway, I don't know why it's such a big deal to some, honestly. It's not like she's insulting anyone (which is where I would draw the line). Some male skaters have started to do a little trash-talking anyways.

Cheylana
06-03-2010, 07:21 PM
As for the first quote, I can see how some skating fans might interpret that as having a "big mouth" but I don't think that comment is out of place for an athlete. (IMO, she had a valid point as well.) The second quote is just her HOPING that she could pull it off (although looking at the raw scores, she'll need quite a bit of improvement PLUS all the help she can get, probably even more help than Sarah got in '02). Also, hard to know the context in a newspaper article where quotes are handpicked. Better to hear the interview (or better yet, see it).
I agree; I don't find either of those comments offensive either. However, she was kinda talking a big game in her first comment. That's fine if you're one of those athletes who regularly backs up the big talk with big results, but if anything, it seems like the big talk might put unnecessary pressure on her.

pinky166
06-03-2010, 11:46 PM
^^ I don't find those quotes conceited at all, she was the only US lady to qualify for the GPF and that obviously shows she is a good competitor. You also have to remember that at the time of the GPF:
- Caroline had just had an epic meltdown at SC and seemed basically out of the picture entirely
- Mirai was still battling her UR demons and hadn't convinced anyone the real Mirai was back yet
- Alissa was doing her usual 1-2 falls, 2-3 UR LPs, so wasn't really a threat to Ashley unless she did a killer SP at nationals
- Rachael, though she outscored Ashley, had not skated great at CoC and had a great FS at SA, but fell in her SP there. She wasn't as consistent as usual
- Sasha had yet to compete, and many were skeptical she would compete at nationals

Going into nationals, I would say Ashley WAS one of the favorites to make the team, Rachael being the other but Ashley had had a better GP season than Rachael and so could maybe have been considered the biggest favorite. Mirai was definitely the underdog that surprised everyone, Caroline most people thought didn't even have a chance, and most predicted the pressure would kill Alissa at nationals.

It's fine she said those things, because in all honesty she probably thought she was going to Vancouver, I thought she was going to go, I wanted Mirai to go more but I didn't think it would happen. In the end Ashley just missed out and Christina, Amanda, Bebe, Alexe, and Emily were all closer to going than Alissa and Caroline.

RD
06-03-2010, 11:57 PM
^ Wagner was a co-favorite along with the Usual Suspects. But she was really competing against herself, against her strong desire to go to the Olympics. The key was not to get ahead of herself in the SP, and although it was an improvement from last year, she still rushed one of her key jumps.

I'd mostly agree with Nagasu being an underdog, probably more so than Wagner and Flatt (how many posters were crowing that that would be our team?) but I remember saying that Nagasu could be a potential spoiler if she puts everything together. And spoiler she was. I remember wanting Wagner to go, but if she didn't I was definitely fine with Nagasu. She was my 2nd choice.


In the end Ashley just missed out and Christina, Amanda, Bebe, Alexe, and Emily were all closer to going than Alissa and Caroline.

Well, there's no "close" about this...you either go or you don't go. It hurts regardless of whether you're 3rd or 10th

pinky166
06-04-2010, 12:41 AM
^ Wagner was a co-favorite along with the Usual Suspects. But she was really competing against herself, against her strong desire to go to the Olympics. The key was not to get ahead of herself in the SP, and although it was an improvement from last year, she still rushed one of her key jumps.

I'd mostly agree with Nagasu being an underdog, probably more so than Wagner and Flatt (how many posters were crowing that that would be our team?) but I remember saying that Nagasu could be a potential spoiler if she puts everything together. And spoiler she was. I remember wanting Wagner to go, but if she didn't I was definitely fine with Nagasu. She was my 2nd choice.

Well, there's no "close" about this...you either go or you don't go. It hurts regardless of whether you're 3rd or 10th

Still, Ashley, Sasha, and Christina were at least alternates for the team, the same can not be said for Alissa and Caroline. In some ways it probably hurts more to be in Ashley's position because she was so close to going, and the other girls weren't. 4 points, she lost 4 points on the fall in the SP. It makes me wonder though, if Ashley hadn't fallen in the SP, would Mirai have gotten all 3 triples downgraded, as far as I could tell, only the final 3t looked UR.

And you're right about Mirai. Though she was much better this GP season than she was last season, she was still a question mark. I thought she had a better shot than Czisny or Zhang all along, but Flatt, Wagner, Cohen I all thought had a better shot than she did.

Marco
06-04-2010, 04:11 AM
4 points, she lost 4 points on the fall in the SP. It makes me wonder though, if Ashley hadn't fallen in the SP, would Mirai have gotten all 3 triples downgraded, as far as I could tell, only the final 3t looked UR.

I am pretty sure if Ashley had remained in title contention after the sp and the top had skated the same way they did in the lp, she and Mirai would have gotten huge scores and the nod for Vancouver. Mirai wouldn't have gotten downgrades and Flatt wouldn't have gotten half the GOEs she got.

RD
06-04-2010, 05:08 AM
^ That's a good point ... But somehow I think it would have been Flatt and Wagner going, and Nagasu would STILL have been DG on those jumps, which would ultimately have cost her an Oly spot. (Ugh)

I'm happy it played out the way it did, though. It would have been that much more heartbreaking if THREE skaters skated lights out in BOTH the SP and FS and one of them had to stay home. At least in Wagner's case it was the SP and that might further motivate her this season. And for Zhang and Czisny, who had trouble in BOTH segments of the competition, maybe a chance to prove that it was a fluke. Maybe more so for Zhang though.

pinky166
06-04-2010, 06:18 AM
I am pretty sure if Ashley had remained in title contention after the sp and the top had skated the same way they did in the lp, she and Mirai would have gotten huge scores and the nod for Vancouver. Mirai wouldn't have gotten downgrades and Flatt wouldn't have gotten half the GOEs she got.

That would have been cool, but realistically the team that went was most likely to get the highest results. Mirai could have potentially finished 12th or something, but I think most people thought there was a possibility she would place really well, and she did. Wagner could have done really well too, but I don't think she would have been ahead of Ando or Lepisto given the way those two skated. Rachael also definitely deserved to go, it's just too bad there weren't 3 spots, it would be interesting to have seen where Ashley placed, likely it would have been below her teammates but likely still good, top 10.