PDA

View Full Version : Wagner Just Misses Out on Olympic Dream



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

Jaana
05-30-2010, 07:45 AM
HOWEVER, imo Nagasu gave the winning performance at Nationals but got dinged (unfairly in some instances) on UR's which only seemed to be a political move for Flatt to go into the Olys with the National title to maybe boost her scores for her boring skating.

In my opinion being the US champion has not boosted anyone´s scores either in men or in ladies discipline for quite some time.... It does not matter whether you are the US champion or not, the only thing that matters is, how you skate in major international events according to the judges.

psycho
05-30-2010, 08:19 AM
Not sure what the point is here...do people think that because of her GPF qualification, Wagner should have been given the ticket? I can understand if she won GPF, or even medaled, but she merely made the cut. Besides, getting into the GPF is as much about the draw you get as it is how well you skate...I think the USFS knows this.

Hmmm, maybe sometimes it's about the luck of the draw, but I wouldn't say so in this case. I wouldn't say Wagner had easier GPs than the rest of the US girls, and it could be argued her's were harder.

I don't know, GPF is a big deal and it should hold more weight. In fact, I long been in favour of a rule change that anyone who medals at the GPF should get an automatic bye to Olympics/worlds, and thus, does not need to use up his/her country's spot.

Just think, if this rule was in place we'd have had Yukari and another Japanese girl at the Olympics, and the American men could have sent Bradley and Rippon. And Kim and Brent could have gone in dance...*sigh*

Polymer Bob
05-30-2010, 09:38 AM
I don't know, GPF is a big deal and it should hold more weight. In fact, I long been in favour of a rule change that anyone who medals at the GPF should get an automatic bye to Olympics/worlds, and thus, does not need to use up his/her country's spot.

Just think, if this rule was in place we'd have had Yukari and another Japanese girl at the Olympics, and the American men could have sent Bradley and Rippon. And Kim and Brent could have gone in dance...*sigh*

That makes a lot of sense. Though the USFSA will certainly not like it ...... nor any other federation. It means that superstars no longer have to show up to their own national championships.

jlai
05-30-2010, 10:04 AM
Well, let's discuss "big talk". The USFSA put out some "big talk" for a year and a half on how certain international events would factor into the Olympic team .... not just Nationals. Ashley was the only U.S. lady to make the Final. How much did that factor in? It seems not much? Could making the Final be considered worth 4 more points at Nationals?

In all 4 disciplines, National results were the only factor.

From Wagner to USFS complaints? :confused:

There was a discussion before nationals at GS on this. The way that discussion sounded to me was that nationals has long been a big deal not just to USFS but also to the athletes who want their shot on the world or Oly team (not to be taken away by a GPF medalist), and the athletes who represented the other skaters at USFS also want it that way. What you want to change is never going to change, unless people directly involved --not fans--want them.

I seem to remember that Inoue/Baldwin, despite not making the team, agreed publicly that nationals should be the deciding factor.

jlai
05-30-2010, 10:04 AM
I agree with your point. Why even have a list of other criteriae if only Nationals matters? HOWEVER, imo Nagasu gave the winning performance at Nationals but got dinged (unfairly in some instances) on UR's which only seemed to be a political move for Flatt to go into the Olys with the National title to maybe boost her scores for her boring skating. Yes, Ashley was 4 points behind Nagasu at Nationals, but had Nagasu been scored properly, as she was at the Olympics and Worlds, she would have walked away with the title and blown away Flatt, let alone Wagner.


No off-season is complete without the nationals conspiracy discussion. :P

I was sitting up in the rafters at nationals, and even with that distance, Nagasu's uRs were visible to me. Flatt, OTOH, looked better live in person that on TV. And I'm no Flatt fan.

Polymer Bob
05-30-2010, 10:48 AM
There was a discussion before nationals at GS on this. The way that discussion sounded to me was that nationals has long been a big deal not just to USFS but also to the athletes who want their shot on the world or Oly team (not to be taken away by a GPF medalist), and the athletes who represented the other skaters at USFS also want it that way. What you want to change is never going to change, unless people directly involved --not fans--want them.

I seem to remember that Inoue/Baldwin, despite not making the team, agreed publicly that nationals should be the deciding factor.

And I can accept it that way. What I have little respect for is saying one thing and doing another. If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?

jlai
05-30-2010, 11:37 AM
And I can accept it that way. What I have little respect for is saying one thing and doing another. If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?

It was all discussed in that gs thread...

Anyway, more than 3 spots per country is politically infeasible for the Olympics.

pinky166
05-30-2010, 01:30 PM
And I can accept it that way. What I have little respect for is saying one thing and doing another. If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?

I think they just say that incase the results go completely haywire at nationals for some reason. So I mean, say potentially Flatt had the flu and skated terribly, Mirai was having an off night with her jumps, and Czisny had a clean short but her usual mediocrity of a 3 triple LP and Gao went clean so that in the end, Gao was 1st and Czisny 2nd. In that case, the USFSA might not have sent either girl to the Olympics or may have only sent one of them because the results were so unexpected and the people who placedwell did so unconvincingly, or in Gao's case, as a very young, inexperienced skater just out of junior. Rather than have Gao and Czisny go and risk them placing 12th and 15th, the USFSA could reason to send Flatt knowing that she is sick so long as she gets healthy in time. It's all just a safety net I think.

Sylvia
05-30-2010, 04:05 PM
The USFSA put out some "big talk" for a year and a half on how certain international events would factor into the Olympic team .... not just Nationals.
I think it's more accurate to say that some fans put out the "big talk" more than USFS ever did. ;)


If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?
According to this post in the FSU Archives, there was a legal reason for the change:

This rule change was discussed by the USFS board of directors at Governing Council [in 2008], it was actually changed due to the USOC [U.S. Olympic Committee]. The gist of it is, if USFS kept the rule saying that the US National Champion was assured a place on the Olympic team it automatically becomes an "Olympic Trial" event in which case the USOC automatically becomes involved in not only the running of the event, but also is eligible to receive profits from the event. Hence the reason for the change.

ETA: Back to Ashley...

Is that permanent or has her heart palpitations been taken care of?
That particular incident at 2009 Junior Worlds reportedly was due to stress/nerves and is not a chronic or serious medical condition, AFAIK.

Coco
05-30-2010, 04:51 PM
IIRC, it took a lot longer for the women's team to be announced in Spokane than it did for any other discipline. I'm guessing Ashley's record that season was being taken into account, but ultimately wasn't enough.

The SP is significant for many reasons, not the least of which is a chance to get in the last group and make NBC happy.

Dr.Siouxs
05-30-2010, 07:18 PM
Is that permanent or has her heart palpitations been taken care of?

Palpitations are most often a sign of stress and/or insufficient nutrition, nothing debilitating by any means.

Indra486
05-30-2010, 09:52 PM
Palpitations are most often a sign of stress and/or insufficient nutrition, nothing debilitating by any means.

Oh okay. Thanks!

psycho
05-31-2010, 05:52 AM
That makes a lot of sense. Though the USFSA will certainly not like it ...... nor any other federation. It means that superstars no longer have to show up to their own national championships.

That's not true in practice, though. Most superstars show up for their nationals even when their spot is never on the line (Lambiel, Plushenko, Verner). And Japanese federation already takes GPF in their selection procedures and I don't see a shortage of superstars at their Nationals.


. The way that discussion sounded to me was that nationals has long been a big deal not just to USFS but also to the athletes who want their shot on the world or Oly team (not to be taken away by a GPF medalist), and the athletes who represented the other skaters at USFS also want it that way. What you want to change is never going to change, unless people directly involved --not fans--want them.


Their shot not to be taken away by a GPF medalist? When I hear sentiment like this I want to roll my eyes. People feeling this way should go out there and medal at the GPF themselves if they think it's that easy. It's not like GPF medals are given out randomly: GPF is the end of a grueling GP circuit, and it takes consistency and being very well trained early in the season to make the GPF and then medal there.

I seem to remember that Inoue/Baldwin, despite not making the team, agreed publicly that nationals should be the deciding factor.
Lord knows, had they said anything other than this they would be crucified by the fans and the press and labeled whiners...:rolleyes:

As for people saying they know what all the athletes want? :lol: Unless I see a scientific poll conducted and results published, all this is speculation at best.

leafygreens
06-02-2010, 02:34 AM
I would LOVE to see Ashley win Nats finally. She is the most enjoyable to watch out of the top three. Rachael was lucky to be gifted the title last year with her inflated scores, but I doubt it will happen again, with her slouchy posture, unflattering outfits and everything else cringeworthy. I look at Ashley like a lesser version of Sasha - she has it all, if she could just land her jumps. Her spins are amazing and fast. Ashley's downfall is her big mouth - she's jinxing herself.

RD
06-02-2010, 02:48 AM
No, Wagner's downfall is the SHORT PROGRAM

JMO of course...but I agree, it's been musical chairs with the US title the past few years and it's Wagner's turn to sit in that chair...of course, she just needs to put it all together and not want it TOO bad, lest she get ahead of herself and make silly mistakes...Won't be shocked to see Nagasu get it again though (which I also don't mind).