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View Full Version : American Idol Finals - May 25 and 26 (All Mediocre Things Must Come To An End)



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Allskate
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
ETA: Slezak is streaming the new version of Don't Waste the Pretty with Allison and Orianthi:

http://music-mix.ew.com/2010/06/02/allison-iraheta-dont-waste-the-pretty-orianthi/

I prefer this to the original album version, but still want a recording of the acoustic version she's been performing.

You folks going to see Adam in concert have to let us know how he (and Allison) do.


I hope so, too. He has quite a range and shouldn't be pigeon-holed into just one style. I am really looking forward to his album.

It's amazing how reluctant they were to let him show his range, especially the guitar-playing blues rocker. I knew that Kara and Simon were opposed to him playing the electric guitar and rocking out (because, you know, the girls just like acoustic sappiness), but from this article it sounds like the producers didn't even see it:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1640569/20100602/story.jhtml

Fortunately, I think some people have come around. In an interview this morning, he seemed pretty sure he's going to make an album:

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/entertainment/american_idol_news/lee-dewyze-crystal-bowersox-20100602

You have to scroll to find Casey's interview here, but he says at the end of his interview that it's looking really good that he's getting a recording contract and he thinks he's going to get an album out pretty quick if it goes through. That leads me to believe 19 and Sony Nashville are signing him. I can't say they'd be my first choice. (I hate the music Gokey has put out and not because it's Gokey.) But, I'm holding out hope that they've seen what he's really capable of and definitely will see it on tour and tap into that. This is a guy who lists albums from Pearl Jam, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and Lynyrd Skynyrd as his three most influential albums, so I hope he doesn't just do country cheese.

seafoam
06-03-2010, 08:59 AM
Sorry, this is only tangentially related, but speaking of big-budget music videos, I just heard that Allison Iraheta was a part of Adam's new music video for "If I Had You." Adam invited many of his friends to be extras/dancers, so that was most likely her role as well. I saw preview stills of the shoot, and it's like a Tim Burton crazy town. I hope we get to see her on the screen. I'm curious to see what she looks like, lol. :)

This video looks like so much fun. Someone on the set said it's very "Midsummer Night's Dream". Can't wait.


Allskate, you don't think LLWD was a good single for Kris? I thought it was a great choice, and the sales and radio airplay were great. Not sure about his second single. I think it's a little dull, but that's just me. I do agree that Adam gets a lot more press and opportunities just because of his personality and who he is. His international promo has been much better than Kris' (I think that Adam is actually doing a lot better in certain countries than he is here)

Both Adam and Kris's singles went platinum in the U.S. "Whataya Want From Me" has done pretty great worldwide as well. It was top 5 or 10 in something like 15 countries, and platinum or double platinum in several. In fact, Pink (who co-wrote the song) has been singing it in her European shows, with the intro being that she wrote a song, and gave it to a really cute guy who could sing it much better than she could :) It's amazing to see these massive audiences singing along with it.

Allskate
06-03-2010, 05:32 PM
Both Adam and Kris's singles went platinum in the U.S. "Whataya Want From Me" has done pretty great worldwide as well. It was top 5 or 10 in something like 15 countries, and platinum or double platinum in several. In fact, Pink (who co-wrote the song) has been singing it in her European shows, with the intro being that she wrote a song, and gave it to a really cute guy who could sing it much better than she could :) It's amazing to see these massive audiences singing along with it.

Sorry. I still don't think these were the best choices -- and they haven't been the only choices. Just because WYWFM and LLYD went platinum doesn't mean they couldn't have done better with other choices. (Adam's first single, which had an expensive video, was FYE, and it went nowhere, though I don't think the label tried hard to do much with it at radio -- and we won't go into the music awards fiasco.) IMO, there are better songs on the album, especially for a European audience. I don't think his new single is one of the best songs on the album either.

As for Kris, although LLYD isn't a bad choice, I don't understand why it was their first choice. There are other songs on the album that are just as good that he actually had a hand in writing. (And those other songs are easier to sing live since they don't have as many words! :lol:) They should be promoting him as a singer-songwriter. Most of the songs on the album are written or co-written by Kris. But they choose two singles that aren't written by him. "The Truth" is not one of the stronger songs on the album. They're just trying to ride Pat Monahan's current success by remixing the song to make it an odd duet between Kris and Pat. Even if this ends up going platinum, too, I still will think it's a bad idea because there are songs that could do better and would do a better job of promoting Kris as an artist.

So, I'm not entirely impressed by the choice of singles for Adam and Kris Sure, they have the power to get them radio play, but I think they could have done better.

I think they're going to have to do a better job with Lee and Crystal because those two won't sell nearly as well as Kris and Adam if they are given comparable quality singles and promotion. I think Kris and Adam combined sold about twice as much with their Idol downloads as Lee and Crystal did. (And also did worse on the Billboard rankings.) So, good material and promotion is going to be critical. Lee has the voice for radio right now, but that's not going to be enough. They just don't have as many devoted fans.

Kruss
06-03-2010, 06:48 PM
Gotta blame the record companies on the choices of singles they release. RCA didn't release any of David Cook's co-written songs as singles, only the two he didn't have a hand with. While both singles went platinum, there were several others from that album that should definitely have been released. Why "Declaration" wasn't a summer single release is beyond me - that song screams single success.

They did release a third single, "Bar-ba-sol", to rock radio where it got little to no play. One of the big local rock stations here in Chicago, who said they'd never play an Idol's music in the past, really liked "Bar-ba-sol" until they heard the radio edit where the guitar solo was cut. Therefore, the station refused to play the song. Nice job (not) to whomever decided to cut that song.

It's not surprising that Kris's record company is releasing songs that he didn't co-write first. It's as if they're all afraid to acknowledge that Kris and David are singer-songwriters. Hell, David even has a cushy deal with Cherry Lane Publishing for all his music past and present, and has been co-writing with various people not only for his upcoming album but for other artists.

I have no idea why these record companies are doing such a great job of mismanaging these talented artists. So frustrating.

flyingsit
06-03-2010, 07:41 PM
I suspect that when the labels bought The Truth and LLWD for Kris' album, they guaranteed that they'd be released as singles. Same for Light On and Come Back To Me.

Kruss
06-03-2010, 09:12 PM
I suspect that when the labels bought The Truth and LLWD for Kris' album, they guaranteed that they'd be released as singles. Same for Light On and Come Back To Me.


Makes sense! I never thought of that.

But why not release more? There were so many more that could have been released after the fact. Why do other artists get single after single after single released, but not these guys?

Allskate
06-03-2010, 09:51 PM
Bret Michaels says he's being considered as a judge for Idol:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/06/03/american-idol-bret-michaels-simon-cowell/

Did any of you see him as a judge on Nashville Star? I didn't. I don't know that he'd be particularly helpful and articulate when put on the spot. But, he'd probably be more entertaining than Kara or Randy.


I suspect that when the labels bought The Truth and LLWD for Kris' album, they guaranteed that they'd be released as singles. Same for Light On and Come Back To Me.

I really doubt it. Neither Pat Monhan nor The Script nor the other writers were that powerful -- and the songs simply weren't that great. Plus, a label wouldn't be stupid enough to commit to making a song a single before the song --- and the other songs on the album -- were chosen and recorded. Who listens to the "The Truth" and says that the song is so incredibly amazing that they will commit to making it a single even before the album is recorded? Not a particularly bright person. :lol:

I do wonder, though, if there are other financial incentives involved. For example, perhaps the contracts with the Idols require the labels to pay a certain amount in songwriting royalties to an Idol who is the songwriter for a single and that amount is higher than what they pay songwriters like Pat Monahan. Or, maybe they just have bad judgment when it comes to choosing singles.

cailuj365
06-03-2010, 10:04 PM
Sorry. I still don't think these were the best choices -- and they haven't been the only choices. Just because WYWFM and LLYD went platinum doesn't mean they couldn't have done better with other choices. (Adam's first single, which had an expensive video, was FYE, and it went nowhere, though I don't think the label tried hard to do much with it at radio -- and we won't go into the music awards fiasco.) IMO, there are better songs on the album, especially for a European audience. I don't think his new single is one of the best songs on the album either.

Actually, I disagree on WWFM not being a good choice for Europe. I didn't think it would be either, but it went to the top of the charts in Germany, Finland, Austria, Netherlands, and a few other places that I can't remember. The FYE music video must have cost Adam and RCA a lot of money that they'll probably not get back, but in the end, I think it does a good job of showing Adam's darker, edgy, and theatrical image. It's a lot more "Glambert" than the one for WWFM.



Neither Pat Monhan nor The Script nor the other writers were that powerful -- and the songs simply weren't that great.

:shuffle: I think the two songs written by The Script are actually some of the best on the album. The only other one that I really lurve that I think would be great on radio would be "Can't Stay Away." (I'm not a fan of "Alright With Me.")

Allskate
06-03-2010, 10:23 PM
Actually, I disagree on WWFM not being a good choice for Europe. I didn't think it would be either, but it went to the top of the charts in Germany, Finland, Austria, Netherlands, and a few other places that I can't remember. The FYE music video must have cost Adam and RCA a lot of money that they'll probably not get back, but in the end, I think it does a good job of showing Adam's darker, edgy, and theatrical image. It's a lot more "Glambert" than the one for WWFM.

Again, just because it did well on the charts doesn't mean others wouldn't have done better. (I suspect that WWFM was chosen because it was a Pink song and they could use that in marketing.) And, even if that FYE video shows the Glambert side of Adam, I'm not convinced it justifies the very large expense. And, if they were going to go in that direction, then commit. Why spend so much on a video that isn't going to be seen that much in order to promote a single the label didn't really push?


:shuffle: I think the two songs written by The Script are actually some of the best on the album. The only other one that I really lurve that I think would be great on radio would be "Can't Stay Away." (I'm not a fan of "Alright With Me.")

Let's say that's true, and let's say, for the sake of argument, that "The Truth" is one of the best on the album. (BTW, "Can't Stay Away From You" probably would have been my choice for a single.) How would the label know that at the time it decided to record them? There's no way it could know that. It would have been stupid to promise The Script and Pat Monahan that their songs would be chosen as singles before they even finished choosing and recording material for the album. Really stupid. I just don't buy the idea that these songs and David Cook's singles were chosen as singles because the label guaranteed the songwriters they would be singles in order to get the rights to the material.

jenny12
06-04-2010, 01:31 AM
They did release a third single, "Bar-ba-sol", to rock radio where it got little to no play. One of the big local rock stations here in Chicago, who said they'd never play an Idol's music in the past, really liked "Bar-ba-sol" until they heard the radio edit where the guitar solo was cut. Therefore, the station refused to play the song. Nice job (not) to whomever decided to cut that song.

Yeah, that's disappointing. I wasn't the biggest David Cook fan, but came to appreciate him and I really liked Bar-ba-sol when I heard it and thought it would fit right in with most rock stations. KROQ, the local rock station in Los Angeles, would never play American Idol contestants' music in a trillion years, but it's disappointing these record labels do their contestants no favors to help them get exposure to an audience that might better connect with them.

cailuj365
06-04-2010, 02:08 AM
Again, just because it did well on the charts doesn't mean others wouldn't have done better. (I suspect that WWFM was chosen because it was a Pink song and they could use that in marketing.) And, even if that FYE video shows the Glambert side of Adam, I'm not convinced it justifies the very large expense. And, if they were going to go in that direction, then commit. Why spend so much on a video that isn't going to be seen that much in order to promote a single the label didn't really push?

There's not much better you can get than Top 10, Top 5, or even #1 (Germany, Finland). I don't know if WWFM is going to be the best-selling track from his album, but it certainly is a very good one for him. I suspect the music video for FYE was filmed before it was sent to radio, but radio apparently gave it poor feedback and would not add/spin it for whatever reason (there is speculation that it was too risque coming from a male - IDK). Rather than leave FYE to flop for months, RCA quickly pulled it and sent in the much safer, less risque WWFM instead (and this was before the AMAs). As a result, most people probably assume WWFM is Adam's first single. Also, I believe the audience and his fans were expecting something big and theatrical from Adam - thus, the big video. The song fits with the video's vibe as well. I'm sure RCA was hoping for FYE to be a hit and for the video to be seen a lot and to make tons of money from it, but these things don't always work out. By the time Adam was doing European promo, WWFM was already climbing in the U.S. I think it makes sense for them to push a song that they know has already done well and to get maximum sales from it. FYE is only the single in two other markets, UK (which fought for that one rather than WWFM) and Japan (which embraces Adam's "glam" style probably more than other countries), but still, the song didn't make much of an impact in sales and is now being replaced by WWFM.

However, I do think Adam wants to go back to his original glam, theatrical style. Hence, the new release of IIHY and the theatrical style of its music video. If his nickname is "Glambert," then he should probably make good on that. Another mid-tempo/slowish song would probably also limit his appeal and be a dud during the summer (California Gurls is the #1 song right now - fun, fresh, light, and happy!) There is only one other uptempo song that I think is catchy enough to release to radio, and that's "Fever" but that song has other issues and also polarizing (some people think it sucks, some love it).



Let's say that's true, and let's say, for the sake of argument, that "The Truth" is one of the best on the album. (BTW, "Can't Stay Away From You" probably would have been my choice for a single.) How would the label know that at the time it decided to record them? There's no way it could know that. It would have been stupid to promise The Script and Pat Monahan that their songs would be chosen as singles before they even finished choosing and recording material for the album. Really stupid. I just don't buy the idea that these songs and David Cook's singles were chosen as singles because the label guaranteed the songwriters they would be singles in order to get the rights to the material.

I have no idea if The Script or Pat Monahan were promised anything. All I was saying is that I really like the two songs written by The Script and was contesting your opinion that they weren't good. Although, I agree with you about the single decisions. Neither The Script or Train had its breakout hits when Kris was recording his album, and it seems unlikely that a label would make single choices that far in advance.

Allskate
06-04-2010, 05:46 PM
There's not much better you can get than Top 10, Top 5, or even #1 (Germany, Finland). I don't know if WWFM is going to be the best-selling track from his album, but it certainly is a very good one for him. I suspect the music video for FYE was filmed before it was sent to radio, but radio apparently gave it poor feedback and would not add/spin it for whatever reason (there is speculation that it was too risque coming from a male - IDK). Rather than leave FYE to flop for months, RCA quickly pulled it and sent in the much safer, less risque WWFM instead (and this was before the AMAs).

But, this doesn't exactly show that RCA has done a great job with Adam's singles, which was the point of this discussion. I doubt RCA is looking back and thinking that what they did with FYE was a good thing. And just because a single get in the top 10, 5, or even number one doesn't mean they couldn't have chosen a single that was better for him. I don't think WWFM is a particularly great song or helps introduce him as the artist he is or wants to be.


I have no idea if The Script or Pat Monahan were promised anything. All I was saying is that I really like the two songs written by The Script and was contesting your opinion that they weren't good.

I didn't say that those songs weren't good and I don't think that. I just think that they are not wise choices as singles, which was the point of the discussion. I also don't think that LLYD is so incredible that the label would promise to make it a single just to get the rights to record it. Just as you would like to see Adam's Glambert side promoted, I think it would be good to promote Kris as a singer-songwriter. Having his first single be a song by the Script is not a good way to do that. And it wasn't necessary to use that song as the first single since there are other songs -- songs he played a role in writing -- that would have been just as good. "Can't Stay Away" would have been a much smarter choice, IMO. And the only reason I can think of for choosing "The Truth" is to try get some mileage out of the connection with Pat Monahan. It's not one of the better songs on the album and Kris didn't write it. Pat Monahan is not all that and adding his vocals to the track did nothing for the song.

Bottom line: I don't think either RCA or Jive have shown brilliance in their choice of singles with these two guys. Just because the songs aren't bad and some of them did pretty well on the charts doesn't mean the labels made the best decisions.

cailuj365
06-04-2010, 07:53 PM
I doubt RCA is looking back and thinking that what they did with FYE was a good thing. And just because a single get in the top 10, 5, or even number one doesn't mean they couldn't have chosen a single that was better for him. I don't think WWFM is a particularly great song or helps introduce him as the artist he is or wants to be.

I think to keep trying to push a single that radio refuses to play is foolish. RCA paid for a very nice video for FYE in support of it, but if radio says "no," then it is better for RCA to switch focus and push a new single - which is exactly what happened. If radio was okay with spinning it, then I think RCA would have pushed it as much as they did with WWFM. Also I'm curious - what song would have been a better choice in your opinion? What song would have sold as well as WWFM is right now? (Because in the end, I think record labels only care about how much money they're making.) What song would have introduced Adam as the artist he wants to be that FYE didn't? FYE is modern dance-pop and also sexual - I think Adam genuinely enjoys that type of music and enjoys being a bit risque too. There's only five tracks on his album that make sense to me as singles, and three have now been released. Again, I'm sure RCA wishes that FYE was a hit rather than having to scramble to release a second single, but I'm also sure RCA didn't go in thinking they had made a bad decision. Dr. Luke produces a lot of smash hits, and they were probably expecting FYE would have been one too. And actually, I do think RCA wanted WWFM as the first single but Adam wanted FYE, so maybe we should all just blame Adam. :P It was also Adam who fought RCA for his ultra-glam, androgynous album cover.

But anyway, I'm not even trying to defend RCA as an good, effective label. I stated in my original post that RCA does a horrible job in picking singles that get radio airplay even if album sales are good. IMO, a successful single gets airplay and gets sales. RCA seems really hit-or-miss. In addition to Adam, within the past year, Christina Aguilera, Daughtry, Kelly, David Cook, Kings of Leon, and even Ke$ha have all had weak debut singles or weak follow-ups after a very successful single. Adam is lucky that WWFM turned out as well as it did.



I didn't say that those songs weren't good and I don't think that. I just think that they are not wise choices as singles, which was the point of the discussion. I also don't think that LLYD is so incredible that the label would promise to make it a single just to get the rights to record it. Just as you would like to see Adam's Glambert side promoted, I think it would be good to promote Kris as a singer-songwriter. Having his first single be a song by the Script is not a good way to do that. And it wasn't necessary to use that song as the first single since there are other songs -- songs he played a role in writing -- that would have been just as good. "Can't Stay Away" would have been a much smarter choice, IMO. And the only reason I can think of for choosing "The Truth" is to try get some mileage out of the connection with Pat Monahan. It's not one of the better songs on the album and Kris didn't write it. Pat Monahan is not all that and adding his vocals to the track did nothing for the song.

I wasn't even trying to add to the discussion of Kris' singles here. All I was saying in the beginning was that I loved the two songs that The Script had written on the album, and you said they weren't great! :lol: I actually agree with most of your points above, and I have no idea why his next single is "The Truth." Personally, I think it's really boring and it was one of the few tracks I disliked when I listened to his album. Picking two songs that weren't written by Kris as the singles seems silly to me as well, especially as one of his "selling points" is that he writes his own stuff.

Allskate
06-04-2010, 09:51 PM
I think to keep trying to push a single that radio refuses to play is foolish. RCA paid for a very nice video for FYE in support of it, but if radio says "no," then it is better for RCA to switch focus and push a new single - which is exactly what happened. If radio was okay with spinning it, then I think RCA would have pushed it as much as they did with WWFM.


It seemed like they hardly gave FYE any time.


Also I'm curious - what song would have been a better choice in your opinion? What song would have sold as well as WWFM is right now? (Because in the end, I think record labels only care about how much money they're making.) What song would have introduced Adam as the artist he wants to be that FYE didn't? FYE is modern dance-pop and also sexual - I think Adam genuinely enjoys that type of music and enjoys being a bit risque too.

Fever is the one that immediately comes to mind. But, the point is that I think that they mishandled FYE.



There's only five tracks on his album that make sense to me as singles, and three have now been released. Again, I'm sure RCA wishes that FYE was a hit rather than having to scramble to release a second single, but I'm also sure RCA didn't go in thinking they had made a bad decision. Dr. Luke produces a lot of smash hits, and they were probably expecting FYE would have been one too. And actually, I do think RCA wanted WWFM as the first single but Adam wanted FYE, so maybe we should all just blame Adam. :P It was also Adam who fought RCA for his ultra-glam, androgynous album cover.

Nah. You can't blame Adam. RCA went with it, but didn't really commit. And I actually don't think it's bad to go glam, but if you do, then commit. It doesn't have to be really pop, but then go the more Muse route. Don't introduce WWFM two seconds after FYE. (They hardly gave FYE any chance at all.) And if they're going to go with a more reserved track, I personally don't think that WWFM was the best way to introduce Adam. Not just because the song isn't anything special, but why link him to a Pink castoff? I do think that the labels care about more than just the profits in a small period of time. They want Adam to make profits for them for more than just a few months and that means really introducing him as an artist.

But, they do these things quickly for the debut album, so hopefully they'll handle it better next time around. With Kris I think the period of time was even shorter because they didn't expect to make an album with him. They were expecting to make one with Danny instead.

I assume they started working on A&R for Lee and Crystal some time ago. They do need to find some good material, arrangements, and producers to work with Lee. I listened to his Idolatry interview and I was amazed to hear him say that he thought his version of a "Kiss from A Rose" was, in his words, "awesome." :wall: He doesn't come across as insecure at all in the interview. Quite the opposite. Almost too cocky for his own good. From other reports, he also didn't seem to think that there was any problem with his vocals on finale night, either. Autotune will take care of his pitch problems (which he apparently doesn't hear or care about), but he'll need someone else to let him know when his choices for phrasing, material, etc. just aren't good. If they do that, he should fit in well on hot AC radio.

I think Crystal has a better sense of what works for her. The challenge there will be finding material that works for her and for radio.

BigB08822
06-05-2010, 04:55 PM
I think Crystal has a better sense of what works for her. The challenge there will be finding material that works for her and for radio.

Absolutely. I know there has to be SOMETHING out there that will both work with her AND with radio but it may take a little luck. It may not jump out to radio right away but hopefully Jive will actually push hard and give it a chance, it just needs a few big stations to spin it and suddenly everyone jumps on board. I don't expect Crystal to ever be a huge radio star like Kelly, Carrie, Daughtry, etc but she can hopefully have a nice enough lead single to get her decent album sales and allow her to continue her career. I look at her in a similar way I looked at Kris. Kris was more radio friendly but not by a ton and he found a single that worked and sold some albums, not a ton but a good amount for someone on Jive.