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Carmen Ovsiannikov
05-25-2010, 03:47 AM
I feel the same way. For example, in Star Wars, you had this Force that was mystical and magical. Then, in the Phantom Menace you heard about midichlorians and all this other stuff and I have to say it took a bit of the romance out of the whole idea. Sometimes it's nice to be able to ponder something mystical or surreal and just let it be.

......


I refuse to see any of the later (er...earlier) 3 Star Wars movies. The original trio is so excellent, the other movies can only do harm to the mythology. Plus the idea of seeing Darth Vader as a chubby cheeked tow-headed moppet and then as hormonal teen with pouty lips makes me :scream:

When the Star Wars prequels were first announced I was beyond excited. That excitement was quickly extinguished after seeing Phantom Menace. It's always surprised me that George Lucas didn't do a better job than he did with the prequels. It's not as if the idea for the prequels was a sudden thing; from what I understand they had been in the works for years so there should have been ample time to write a great background story.

I wouldn't have minded seeing Darth Vader as a boy if his story has been told better. IMO basically Darth Vader ended up as Darth Vader because he was a hot tempered, whiny spoiled brat. ??? And don't get me started about Padme in the third film. The only one of the three films I will watch every once in a while is the second as there were some clever "oh that's how that happened" moments and Natalie Portman's wardrobe was breathtaking (which isn't supposed to be one of the main selling points of a film like Star Wars).

Back to Lost, I loved both the mysteries of the island and watching them unfold and be explained. But I also loved the heavily character driven storylines and I don't feel cheated at all. Perhaps certain things went over my head but I don't feel all that much was left unexplained either. At least not enough to leave me feeling unsatisfied.

mindy, I thought that after The Others (lead by Ben) captured Jack, Kate and Sawyer that Kate and Sawyer were meant to end up together and was surprised to see that he had ended up with Juliet once the Oceanic Six returned to civilization. The Sawyer/Juliet relationship was great though. It was nice to see a different side of Sawyer.

manhn
05-25-2010, 04:31 AM
So I watched it again, and now I believe that they all died before the crash

Where did you get that theory from the finale?

http://forum.lostpedia.com/transcript-christian-jack-dialogue-t58693.html


C: Hey, kiddo.
J: Dad?
C: Hello, Jack.
J: I don't understand...you died.
C: Yes, I did.
J: Then, how are you here right now?
C: How are YOU here?
J: I died, too?
C: It's okay. It's okay, son (hug)
J: I love you, dad...are you real?
C: I sure hope so...yeah, I'm real. All those people in the church...they're real, too.
J: They're all...
C: Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some of them before you, some long after you.
J: Are they all here now?
C: Well, there is no "Now" here.
J: Where are we, dad?
C: This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.
J: For what?
C: To remember....and let go.
J: Kate--she said we were leaving.
C: Not leave--No--Moving on.
J: Where are we going?
C: Let's go find out.

BigB08822
05-25-2010, 04:34 AM
Kate/Jack and Sawyer/Juliette makes 100% sense if you think at it from one of the big points of Lost, which was BALANCE. Black and white, ying and yang, good and evil, etc. Kate/Sawyer and Jack/Juliette would be too much of the same with no balance. IMO.

Bev Johnston
05-25-2010, 05:02 AM
I really can't understand all of the "what a waste of time these last 6 years" comments from some people. Did they look forward to the show every week? Did they enjoy it while watching? If the answer to these questions is "no", then they only have themselves to blame for sitting around for six years, waiting for some ultimate pay off from something they criticized and picked at the whole time.

You know, in real life we don't get all of our questions answered, either. And I agree that people have forgotten that we HAVE gotten answers to a lot of questions. Today, this guy at work said, "so they never told us what the light was." Hello! Wasn't that explained in the Jacob/MIB episode? Maybe he was expecting more, but the explanation was given.

Sally1214
05-25-2010, 06:19 AM
I absolutely LOVED the finale.

Yes, there were lots of questions unanswered but I don't care. It was the characters I was invested in and I loved the many heartwrenching and beautiful reunions. I wish Michael had been in the church but I guess maybe they couldn't have him without Walt (& "Walt" had grown up on them over the 6 seasons). So, I can live with that too.

Is it silly of me to wish that VINCENT could have been in the church and moved on with all the humans?? That scene with Jack & Vincent had me sobbing ....

I'm going to miss this show SO much.

Satellitegirl
05-25-2010, 01:47 PM
I really can't understand all of the "what a waste of time these last 6 years" comments from some people. Did they look forward to the show every week? Did they enjoy it while watching? If the answer to these questions is "no", then they only have themselves to blame for sitting around for six years, waiting for some ultimate pay off from something they criticized and picked at the whole time.

You know, in real life we don't get all of our questions answered, either. And I agree that people have forgotten that we HAVE gotten answers to a lot of questions. Today, this guy at work said, "so they never told us what the light was." Hello! Wasn't that explained in the Jacob/MIB episode? Maybe he was expecting more, but the explanation was given.

completely agree.

Jenny
05-25-2010, 01:54 PM
My theory on David is one of Jack's big big hang ups was Daddy issues and rather or not he could have been a good father. So David was Jack's way of realizing both.

Agree - David never existed. His purpose, in Jack's mind, was to help reconcile his relationship with his own father by putting himself in his father's shoes. Juliet being his ex-wife was just a convenience to explain where the child has been, but the relationship between Jack and Juliet was irrelevant.

Every time I saw David, I thought wow that's perfect casting. In retrospect, it was almost too perfect.



ETA: I don't think everyone in sideways are 'real'. Alex, David, Danielle... etc, I don't think they are real. As Christian said, sideways was created by those that needed to be together reunited in order to move on, because their time on the island was the most important event in their lives. Those other characters and minor ones are just created by the Losties into this grand purgatory so they will have a chance to meet together, reflect, and move on.

Agree. As Christian said, Sideways was a world created collectively by the core Losties to come to terms with all that happened.


I agree- the writers more or less hit us over the head with that one. But some viewers point to the wreckage being shown over the final credits - with no people and (apparently) one set of footprints coming from it which they interpret as Jack's and him being the only survivor who dies in the jungle.

ARRGGHHHHHHH bloody Canadian network overrides - we did NOT get this! Is it posted somewhere? Can someone kindly give a detailed recap of what was shown?

Yehudi
05-25-2010, 03:30 PM
You know, in real life we don't get all of our questions answered, either. And I agree that people have forgotten that we HAVE gotten answers to a lot of questions. Today, this guy at work said, "so they never told us what the light was." Hello! Wasn't that explained in the Jacob/MIB episode? Maybe he was expecting more, but the explanation was given.

There are still people hung up about the polar bears when you could pretty much have figured out that answer back in Season 2.

skatecat
05-25-2010, 04:00 PM
At least, that is the claim. And since it lines up with how I have interpreted the finale, I feel good about it. Here is the link to the post on Lostpedia:

http://forum.lostpedia.com/someone-bad-robots-take-finale-t59261.html?

Here is a snippet:

"But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


"In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding."

Jenny
05-25-2010, 04:19 PM
Sorry, but I ain't buying. There were several people in the church who did not appear in Season 1 - Desmond, Penny, Libby, Juliet, Bernard - and at the same time, Michael and Walt were missing and they were there from episode 1.

I do believe they always wanted to end with the image of Jack's eye closing (at least as soon as they decided he would live beyond the pilot), and that early on they decided that everyone would come together for some sort of reconciliation at the end.

Jimena
05-25-2010, 04:22 PM
"But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it.
Oh, but that's not true. Penny and Desmond were in the church and they didn't come into the story until season 2. Libby was in the church. Juliet was in the church and she came in on season 3.

I'm quite happy with the people that were in the church, however. I'm not complaining. It makes sense to me that Michael and Walt (and Vincent :wuzrobbed) weren't in the church. Same for Ana Lucia. And Ben didn't deserve to move on, yet.

Lorac
05-25-2010, 05:02 PM
Sorry, but I ain't buying. There were several people in the church who did not appear in Season 1 - Desmond, Penny, Libby, Juliet, Bernard - and at the same time, Michael and Walt were missing and they were there from episode 1.

I do believe they always wanted to end with the image of Jack's eye closing (at least as soon as they decided he would live beyond the pilot), and that early on they decided that everyone would come together for some sort of reconciliation at the end.

I think maybe they had a strong idea of the ending and then manipulated it to fit with the people who had become main players but no way was it written in stone as we have seen how that has changed over the course of the show. And I like the idea of Ben being outside the church and not "moving on" - even though Hugo and Locke both assumed he would be in there. He still had to resolve some of what he did during his lifetime - and that had to do with Danielle and Alex. Once that has happened he will move on as well.

Satellitegirl
05-25-2010, 05:39 PM
IIRC, I heard that they only part of the ending that was set in stone, was the eye closing. Beyond that, they didn't even know who's eye it would be. That's just what I remember hearing though.

genevieve
05-25-2010, 05:44 PM
I think maybe they had a strong idea of the ending and then manipulated it to fit with the people who had become main players but no way was it written in stone as we have seen how that has changed over the course of the show.
I agree with you - but that's not what was said in the LOSTpedia entry.

skatecat
05-25-2010, 05:55 PM
I think that Juliet had to be there for Sawyer, and Bernard had to be there for Rose, and Desmond & Penny -- well they just HAD to be there in the church. I'm still wrapping my brain around the "there is no time here" concept, but maybe Walt can't be there because he hasn't yet died. It was a tricky line for them to draw, because they were pretty much all the same age as they were on the island (including Aaron).

But I hope all of you will follow the link and read the entire entry. There is a lot of good stuff there, like:

"Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

"The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving."