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Ziggy
07-07-2010, 02:44 PM
I agree that they should have at least tried to nip it in the bud, but what can you when your "child" is 18? She was legally an adult. She wasn't dependent on them financially. What hold could they have on her at that point? Even the best parents would have a hard time with that one.

Well it's too late by then, isn't it? Since they've managed to completely screw her up as a child, the best she could do is probably keep them at a distance.

But then the problem is she's still pretty much a child and needs some guidance. Her parents aren't going to give it to her, though, because they seem as immature as she is and are behaving in a very destructive way, sponging her celebrity for all it's worth.

If they were good parents, she wouldn't have been brought up to become such a mess, or at least I would like to think so.

MOIJTO
07-07-2010, 02:49 PM
The BEST of parents can have screwed up children. Although it is true you know what you learn. Lindsey's parents were not poster children for parents of the year! But they can change too, its never to late to be a parent even when your kids are adults. Kids may wander but most with good foundations in childhood eventually come back to the nest at some point. I would think that Lindsey's foundation from her parents may not be solid and therefore she many always struggle. Temptation in Hollyweird is a relentless and this doesn't help either.

DickButtonFan
07-07-2010, 03:03 PM
She didn't look that old to me, she looked like most her age?

Norlite
07-07-2010, 03:07 PM
She didn't look that old to me, she looked like most her age?



Yeah, to me she looks like a 24 year old girl who needs to rest for a long while.

Jenny
07-07-2010, 03:45 PM
Absolutely true-Robert Downey Jr. did an amazing turn-around, and I was so glad because he is truly a gifted artist. Lindsey is not.

The big difference is that Robert always had a lot of good people around him, supporting him and rooting for him, most notably of course his wife. A friend of mine worked on a show about him, and person after person said how much they liked him and how great he was to work with and that he was a good person inside.

Lindsay is surrounded by leaches and party people, and those are the people she seeks out. She'll never turn around if she doesn't have solid support from stable people who really care about her.

Prancer
07-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Off topic, but I wonder if US youth in general is just not as mature as we were at that age.

How mature were we at 18? I sure wasn't very grown up, although I thought I was at the time.


The BEST of parents can have screwed up children.

Yes, it's not as easy as plug in the right values and produce the right output, or else most people would do just that.

Lousy parents can have good kids; good parents can have lousy kids.

Lindsay obviously got a real pair of lousy parents--but at this point, it 's not her parents' fault that she behaves as she does, even if both of them do seem to be intent on helping her self destruct.

liv
07-07-2010, 04:40 PM
this could be a big guess, but I"m wondering if her parents were easy and forgiving when she was under 18 because she was paying THEIR bills. We keep thinking she was independent of them financially, but often child stars are the ones supporting their parents. I'm sure they didn't want to lose their chance at being supported either. And that shows my opinion of her parents.

i"m not fan of Britney Spears, but it seems like her family at least took some responsibility and acted to reign her in...and yes, I"m sure they were getting money from her too.

It's too bad she won't really be in the slammer for 90 days. Probably do her a world of good.

Capella
07-07-2010, 04:49 PM
:o I watched the whole courtroom hearing live on TMZ :o I really did find the whole proceding very interesting, and I tried putting myself in a juror's chair to see what I would do (not that there was a jury here, but I felt I needed to justify the hours I spent watching).

I kind of felt bad for Lindsay's lawyer. Her client is a trainwreck, yet she has to fight for her. I thought she did a great job as a defense attorney, given what she had to work with. She was very well-spoken and professional. The prosecutor seemed scattered and many times lost or ill-prepared. The judge seemed a little more lenient with her, though, denying more of Lindsay's lawyers objections than the other way around.

I thought the beginning of the hearing was very odd that the people who run the alcohol program did not want to testify because they worried about self-incrimination. Judge was all, dude, you were subpoenaed, so get up there and talk. "Best" part of the interrogation was when the woman who owns the alcohol program said that they turned in reports saying Lindsay was "in compliance" because they never received a formal document from the court saying that Lindsay had to come once a week. The judge was all -- remember that conference call we had? You, me, the lawyers? And I said once a week, every week, no deviations? Program owner was all "but...um...you didn't submit it in writing, so I wasn't sure if you really meant it." :rolleyes: from the judge on that. Also loved that Lindsay's camp said they had Leave of Absence excuses for all the classes she missed. Program lady said that was correct, however, usually the Leaves were done after the fact, like when Lindsay would call from France and say, hey I'm in France so I won't be there this week.

I think it was a mistake for defense attorney to keep stressing that Lindsay "only" missed 7 out of 27 weeks of the mandatory classes. That percentage doesn't say "only" to me.

The types of classes that were to be attended were both private one-on-ones and group sessions. The program owner was asked how many people, on average, were in the group sessions. The answer: "one." Ummm :shuffle:

When Lindsay stood up to give her crying plea for mercy, I believed the tears were real, but I viewed them as "I can't believe you are doing this to me" rather than "I am so sorry I've screwed up up and am so remorseful over my actions and I'm a bad person who deserves this but is sad it's come to this."

At first, the judge said that Lindsay's incarceration would start immediately, and one of the bailiffs (?) moved over to take Linsday, but she freaked and the lawyer pleaded for some time before Linsday had to surrender. She got two weeks. I definitely disagreed with this from the judge, because I think the shock and effect of immediately being taken into custody would have had more impact on Lindsay, especially since she most likely will not have to serve the full 90 days. I also thought they would revoke her passport, at least, since I have a reallllllllly hard time believing that the surrender will actually happen as planned. Lindsay asked to have the SCRAM device removed for the next two weeks and the judge was like :huh: are you kidding me?

With my "jury duty" done, I would have also sent Lindsay to jail and then in-patient rehab, but I would have taken her into immediate custody. I think Lindsay's lawyer "beat" the prosecution lawyer, though. And I would seriously re-examine the alcohol program's legitimacy and reporting parameters. Definitely sounded like some sketchy reports to the court coming from their end.

This whole thing made me nostalgic for the early days of Court TV. I was laid up during the Menedez brothers trial, so I watched a lot of it live. It made for some very interesting "entertainment."

Ziggy
07-07-2010, 05:05 PM
The BEST of parents can have screwed up children.

I don't believe they can, at least not in the majority of cases (pretty much everything, including good parenting techniques works in a bell-shaped curve so it's going to be benefit most people but never everyone).

Pretty much everyone considers themselves to be a good parent or at least thinks they've done all they could and tried their best, but in most cases if you looked from outside, it would be pretty easy to pinpoint the mistakes.

That's why I'm never going to have children. It's way too scary and far too much of a responsibility with a lot of potential to go pear-shaped. Philip Larkin was totally right. :P


Yes, it's not as easy as plug in the right values and produce the right output, or else most people would do just that.

That's because it's a much more complex process than that, with all the parent-parent-children-environment interactions.

But still, I think the biggest problem is people having no clue about parenting whatsoever and very limited self-awareness.

I find it shocking that parenting (as well as social skills in general) isn't taught at school. It definitely would be more useful than 90% of the academic subjects. :P

cruisin
07-07-2010, 05:08 PM
The big difference is that Robert always had a lot of good people around him, supporting him and rooting for him, most notably of course his wife. A friend of mine worked on a show about him, and person after person said how much they liked him and how great he was to work with and that he was a good person inside.

Lindsay is surrounded by leaches and party people, and those are the people she seeks out. She'll never turn around if she doesn't have solid support from stable people who really care about her.

That can make a huge difference. And it's possible RD Jr. hit his bottom. Hitting the point of get help or die is different for every person. For some it might be getting caught, jail time, OD'ing, watching someone you care about die. For others, none of those things will do it. For some, the initial 30, 60, 90 stint in rehab will set them on a life long path of recovery. For others (sadly the majority) it might take several stints, or never.


How mature were we at 18? I sure wasn't very grown up, although I thought I was at the time.



Yes, it's not as easy as plug in the right values and produce the right output, or else most people would do just that.

Lousy parents can have good kids; good parents can have lousy kids.

Lindsay obviously got a real pair of lousy parents--but at this point, it 's not her parents' fault that she behaves as she does, even if both of them do seem to be intent on helping her self destruct.

Absolutely.



When Lindsay stood up to give her crying plea for mercy, I believed the tears were real, but I viewed them as "I can't believe you are doing this to me" rather than "I am so sorry I've screwed up up and am so remorseful over my actions and I'm a bad person who deserves this but is sad it's come to this."


I pretty much agree with your post. I do think it would have had more impact on Lindsey if she'd been taken in immediately. If she truly had a melt down, the court might have given her a day or two, but two weeks, seems like more than is needed.

The above though, made me a little uncomfortable. I agree with your point, that she was that she was probably upset that they would do this to her, rather than upset that she did what she did. But, is she really a "bad person". She is clearly troubled, but you don't have to be a bad person to get into trouble. And at this point in Lindsey's alcohol, drug, hard living life, how likely is it that she is making decisions that are even a little bit rational?

cruisin
07-07-2010, 05:09 PM
I don't believe they can, at least in the majority of cases (pretty much everything, including good parenting techniques works in a bell-shaped curve so it's going to be benefit most people but never everyone).

Pretty much everyone considers themselves to be a good parent or at least thinks they've done all they could and tried their best, but in most cases if you looked from outside, it would be pretty easy to pinpoint the mistakes.

That's why I'm never going to have children. It's way too scary and far too much of a responsibility with a lot of potential to go pear-shaped. Philip Larkin was totally right. :P


Oh, have kids, just don't let them be movie stars.

Ziggy
07-07-2010, 05:12 PM
Oh, have kids, just don't let them be movie stars.

They'd be figure skaters and I'd be worse than Mama Chin, Leung and Bonaly combined. Nobody would surely want to see that inflicted on anyone. ;)

shan
07-07-2010, 05:13 PM
Did this start with a DUI arrest? And how long ago was that?

cruisin
07-07-2010, 05:15 PM
They'd be figure skaters and I'd be worse than Mama Chin, Leung and Bonaly combined. Nobody would surely want to see that inflicted on anyone. ;)

Have boys :D They can play hockey. Then, instead of screwing up your kids, you can kill the fathers of the opposing team. :eek:

skatingfan5
07-07-2010, 05:22 PM
That can make a huge difference. And it's possible RD Jr. hit his bottom. Hitting the point of get help or die is different for every person. For some it might be getting caught, jail time, OD'ing, watching someone you care about die. For others, none of those things will do it. For some, the initial 30, 60, 90 stint in rehab will set them on a life long path of recovery. For others (sadly the majority) it might take several stints, or never.It took several arrests/convictions and many rehabs for Robert Downey Jr. to finally achieve a relatively long-lasting sobriety. It's been 7 years so far, but unfortunately as with all addictions, he still could relapse. He is such a talented actor, that I hope he will be able to maintain his sobriety for the remainder of his life.

Not sure if/when Lindsey will be able to kick her addiction. It's such as shame to see the state she is in these days. Sadly, the path for many child stars is a very precarious one, once they leave childhood behind. :(