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View Full Version : Why Tonya Harding Is The Greatest Skater Of All Time



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robinhood
06-11-2010, 10:46 PM
Ito flutzed? I have never heard that one before
One thing she had over Ito, from the purist point of view, was the form of her jumps as she was tight in the air. Maybe, I'm really subjective, but Midori's "wrap" doesn't bother me like other wraps
Ito attempted to be musical later in her career and I think she did a nice job. There was honesty and sincerity about her skating. Tonya always skated to the same powerhouse music and I've noticed that it's her who was wooden as the years went past. She was much more musical as a younger skater
BTW, I consider Tonya a terrific skater. She's my favorite american skater ever, in any discipline.

skateboy
06-12-2010, 09:52 AM
Tonya's 1993 Skate America SP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJLjdg4208k



I'd forgotten how great this program was, thanks for sharing! (And how nice to see a short program NOT frontloaded with jumps!)

I loved both Tonya's programs in the 93-94 season. She skated with so much for musicality than before. And for the people who always rag on Tonya for her ugly dresses, I think she looked gorgeous in this costume!

leesaleesa
06-12-2010, 01:59 PM
Ladies, (and gentlemen) this is how you do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JM5Ed3ardM&feature=related

Ziggy
06-12-2010, 09:35 PM
No one beats Midori in my books either. She too had huge jumps. Her triple axels would put majority of men to shame, and she was a more consistent jumper than Tonya.

She was much more consistent but Tonya's jumps, when landed, were better IMO. Midori had an ugly wrap.


Kim does not cheat her jumps. They are fully rotated. Asada sometimes underrotates her triple axel, and gets dinged for it, but there are times when she fully rotates them too. Both of them are better all around skaters than Tonya Harding. Tonya had great jumps and spins but that's about it. Midori had the best flow into and out of the jumps and she was more consistent than Tonya. I think Tonya had one consistent year (may be one and a half season) and then her jump consistency went south.

Kim's solo jumps are fine but her triple-triple combinations are practically always a little bit underrotated.

Tonya had strong SS too but obviously she wasn't a strong all around skater. Still, her jumping technique was absolutely incredible and there isn't anybody skating today that comes anywhere close to it.

skateboy
06-13-2010, 08:54 AM
:respec:
Ladies, (and gentlemen) this is how you do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JM5Ed3ardM&feature=related

:respec: Best triple axel by a lady EVER!! She jumped almost as high as the top of the boards, incredible.

Triple Butz
06-17-2010, 07:17 AM
Sorry to bring this thread back up, but does anyone know what combination Tonya used in her 1987/1988 in the sp? I know she had previously done 3f/2r in 1985, but did she keep it all the way through until 1988? After they removed the "2r rule" she went to 3z/2t and later 3a/2t.

olympic
06-17-2010, 02:34 PM
Sorry to bring this thread back up, but does anyone know what combination Tonya used in her 1987/1988 in the sp? I know she had previously done 3f/2r in 1985, but did she keep it all the way through until 1988? After they removed the "2r rule" she went to 3z/2t and later 3a/2t.

OT - IIRC, it wasn't a 2r rule. Yearly, a type of double jump was selected to be the jump used in a combo, ie - 2f, 2r, 2t in combo with another jump. At 1982 Worlds, it was a 2f for example.

Triple Butz
06-17-2010, 07:58 PM
OT - IIRC, it wasn't a 2r rule. Yearly, a type of double jump was selected to be the jump used in a combo, ie - 2f, 2r, 2t in combo with another jump. At 1982 Worlds, it was a 2f for example.

I should have been more clear, I merely meant that in 87/88 the 2r was the chosen double, and I was wondering if Tonya brought back the 3f/2r (the only combo I've ever seen her do with a 2r) or if she had a different combo.

bardtoob
06-17-2010, 08:45 PM
^ That is a good question. There is footage of Midori's SP from NHK 1987 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TgQaLmVm9I), so there must be footage of Tonya's SP somewhere.

Tonya finished 3rd, behind Katarina and Midori at 1987 NHK.


ETA: At the beginning of this clip, you can see Tonya's SP presentation scores while she is in the K&C with her coach. They look very happy.

Katarina Witt 1987 NHK SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrHE7Fgtdl8)

judgejudy27
06-17-2010, 08:58 PM
I wonder what the Calgary podium would have looked like if Witt skated as poorly at the Olympics as she did at NHK. Or would they have still found a way to hold her up even then?

olympic
06-17-2010, 09:16 PM
I wonder what the Calgary podium would have looked like if Witt skated as poorly at the Olympics as she did at NHK. Or would they have still found a way to hold her up even then?

I don't think they would've been looking for a way to necessarily hold Witt up per se. Manley skated after Witt in Calgary and easily bested her in the LP, even with Witt's LP performance there being superior to her NHK performance. Keep in mind that Thomas still was to skate as the final performer. To me, it was obvious the judges left the door open and they weren't thrilled with Witt's Ice Capades LP that year. Besides, she was held up in the SP. I don't think the judges would've permitted wuz-gifting x2. They got away with it as it was cuz Witt was clean in the LP.

Now, what would be interesting is Witt's NHK performance @ Calgary after Thomas's meltdown. Ito would probably have passed Witt as well as Thomas in the LP, which might have meant Manley being the '88 Olympic Gold Medalist by factored placements.

Was Witt's NHK LP worse, the same or still better than Thomas's LP in Calgary??? How about Trenary's tentative yet cleanish LP (where she doubled the flip and something else I think but was otherwise good) ? If it was that bad, Thomas may have passed her too but I don't remember her NHK performance at all, just that the marks were in the mid 5's range. My own mother watched that performance and thought a flawed Ito should've won NHK....

Spinner
06-18-2010, 03:21 AM
Besides, she was held up in the SP. I don't think the judges would've permitted wuz-gifting x2.

This still boils my blood to this day. Politiking back then was horrendous. Kadavy should have handily won the SP--I know, totally mucking up the placements and favoritism.

judgejudy27
06-18-2010, 05:26 AM
The SP judging in Calgary was horrible, protocal judging at its finest. Witt and Manley were both majorly held up, while Kadavy and Ito were both majorly held down. Thomas and Trenary were the only ones in the top 6 scored about right perhaps (though Thomas never should have lost the SP to Witt atleast).

Olympic Witts performance at NHK had only 2 clean triples and a 3rd she stepped out of. I would say it as about on par with Thomas in Calgary, but Thomas atleast went for 5 triples including the triple-triple and triple loop and kept them all on her feet even though only 2 were clean that night. Thomas only beat Trenary in the Calgary LP on a 5-4 split. So it would have been very interesting to see how they would have scored Witts LP from NHK vs them. Of course Manley now almost certainly wins, and it comes down to who places higher in the LP between Thomas and Witt for the silver. Trenary has no chance to catch up by that point really, nor Ito.

skateboy
06-18-2010, 05:33 AM
Kati did not skate well at all at NHK! She was definitely gifted there.

Marco
06-18-2010, 07:33 AM
I just think it was a major blow for skating judging in general to not have Ito win both the sp and the lp in Calgary. I don't know where she would end up when counting figures, but she certainly deserved to win both the sp and lp with at least a 0.4 margin on technical merit over anyone else. She wasn't artistic but she delivered the best balance of speed, ease of movement, excitment and program intracacy and easily deserved 5.7s on the second mark. I guess those meant nothing in 1988. :P