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Asli
09-22-2010, 01:40 PM
I think Besti/Bukin were not more popular outside of the former Soviet Union was due to the fact that Dick Button bashed their skating style every single time he was commentating during ice dancing events. He just plainly disliked them.

Maybe that had an effect in the US only, and also I know that in the UK they were presented as the rivals of Torvill&Dean, which maybe made them unpopular there. (Actually they were never a threat to T&D, especially because of Bukin's skating skills - or lack thereof. )

However Bestemianova and Bukin were immensely popular with most audiences and brought the house down wherever they skated. As far as entertainment value went, they held the audience in their hands from start to finish. Yes, they were over-the-top, but it was exactly their theatrical performances that were a welcome change. Even Christopher Dean tells (in a video about their career) how B&B skated before them and he and Jayne Torvill preferred to remain where they could not hear the roar of applause at the end of B&B's performance.

orbitz
09-22-2010, 01:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uprtf5Mbkhg



This program of V/T is one big refridgerator break. The music is doing its own thing, while the skaters are doing their own thing at one slow speed throughout. I hope their coaches and choreographer can review the performances objectively and make the necessary adjustments.

Something's off with their thow technique. They made mistakes on them in both the SP and LP.

Gil-Galad
09-22-2010, 03:39 PM
This program of V/T is one big refridgerator break. The music is doing its own thing, while the skaters are doing their own thing at one slow speed throughout.
Yeah, what's with the lack of speed? Is that something that comes later? In my naiveté I always thought speedy skater with good skating skills + speedy skater with good skating skills = speedy pair with good skating skills. It's not like there is much choreography that can get in their way. On the other hand - K/S were rather slow in the beginning too, and now have really great speed in their programs, especially during that "The Swan"-short.

MarieM
09-22-2010, 03:50 PM
I think in pairs or dance, the speed comes with time and work on precision.

equatorial
09-22-2010, 04:32 PM
Maybe that had an effect in the US only, and also I know that in the UK they were presented as the rivals of Torvill&Dean, which maybe made them unpopular there. (Actually they were never a threat to T&D, especially because of Bukin's skating skills - or lack thereof. )

However Bestemianova and Bukin were immensely popular with most audiences and brought the house down wherever they skated. As far as entertainment value went, they held the audience in their hands from start to finish. Yes, they were over-the-top, but it was exactly their theatrical performances that were a welcome change. Even Christopher Dean tells (in a video about their career) how B&B skated before them and he and Jayne Torvill preferred to remain where they could not hear the roar of applause at the end of B&B's performance.

Actually, Bukin's skating skills were good. No match for Dean's to be sure, but good. And with the time they became better. Bestemianova could become a successful actress. She was so obviously talented, I sometimes think it was a shame she went into figure skating. They performed in my city with an exhibition tour of the whole then Soviet figure skating team when I was still a teen, and I must say that videos don't even begin to convey how great they were. Same about T/D who I saw with Tarasova's All Stars troupe in Moscow, their first performance together. It was almost as great as watching Sylvie Guillem live ;)

Taso
09-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Actually, Bukin's skating skills were good. No match for Dean's to be sure, but good. And with the time they became better. Bestemianova could become a successful actress. She was so obviously talented, I sometimes think it was a shame she went into figure skating. They performed in my city with an exhibition tour of the whole then Soviet figure skating team when I was still a teen, and I must say that videos don't even begin to convey how great they were. Same about T/D who I saw with Tarasova's All Stars troupe in Moscow, their first performance together. It was almost as great as watching Sylvie Guillem live ;)

I think people tend to compare Bukin's skating skills with Dean and Ponomarenko, who could whip any current male dancer's butt right now anyway. Once you got out of the top 3-4 couples, Bukin's skills were obviously a lot better than the rest of the field in that era.

And thank you for sharing your live experience with Bestemianova's acting skills, they really are something amazing. An ex of mine didn't get my figure skating interest at all, and when I showed her a few B&B programs she was totally blown away by their expressiveness and authenticity of emotion. That's a rare, RARE gift, and I agree that hers honestly may have been wasted on figure skating. Considering she won 5 European titles, 4 Worlds titles, an Olympic Gold, and so many other medal it's obscene, that's no small statement. I think the only skater I've seen who even comes into Bestemianova's ballpark of acting ability is Elena Ilinykh, and she clearly is too young to make any real comparison.

parasolka
09-22-2010, 08:59 PM
Bukin's skating skills were not good? They were remarkable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FpGPUDXo3E&feature=related

Ziggy
09-22-2010, 11:39 PM
K/S look almost ... juniorish when viewed right after V/T.

They don't have the elegance or the basics of V/T but to call a program of that complexity, executed to that level despite the injuries, juniorish is way off the mark IMO.


:huh:

A tasteless remark.

Yes, that was the point Stepford Wife.


V&T made IMO one huge mistake : not going with a very well known coach.
This leads to two rather boring programs to music we should never hear again ! Booo.

And here I was naively thinking that it's more important to have a good coach than a celebrity one. :P

At this level, it's usually choreographers and not coaches who are responsible for the programs. Morozov and not their coach choreographed it and the Russian Fed has brought him back to Russia precisely so he could work with their top skaters.


This program of V/T is one big refridgerator break. The music is doing its own thing, while the skaters are doing their own thing at one slow speed throughout. I hope their coaches and choreographer can review the performances objectively and make the necessary adjustments.

Something's off with their thow technique. They made mistakes on them in both the SP and LP.

They've been training together for only 4 months, if I remember correctly.

Neither the programs, nor the elements are ready.

bek
09-22-2010, 11:52 PM
I'm not sure what people were expecting from V/T. They are a new team and they first need to figure out how to get comfortable together, how to skate together and how to mesh the elements together. Someone mentioned they had different throw technique.

We can't expect S/S type programs when they are still trying to learn how to skate together. Give it time maybe more will be added to the programs, when they are ready.

mia joy
09-23-2010, 12:09 AM
Something's off with their thow technique. They made mistakes on them in both the SP and LP.

geez, what a surprise, isn't it? wasn't it obvious it would not be easy for Tatiana to get used to the fact she won't be flying as high as with Stas or have as much time to turn her triples in the air? Maxim is obviously smaller and therefore his throw technique has to be different than Stanislav's. They both need to get used to it, get to feel each other. Some teams have years to figure that out and you expect them to manage a perfect throw after only a few months? I'm already surprised how great their twist is and their SBS spins. Don't expect a miracle. Just wait.

Kasey
09-23-2010, 12:09 AM
We can't expect S/S type programs when they are still trying to learn how to skate together. Give it time maybe more will be added to the programs, when they are ready.

And the really sad thing is, already these programs are choreographically more complex than 95% of the programs Trankov had with Mukhortova.... :shuffle:

Ziggy
09-23-2010, 01:26 AM
And the really sad thing is, already these programs are choreographically more complex than 95% of the programs Trankov had with Mukhortova.... :shuffle:

LOL! :D

So eville but true. :P

Well actually the first version of "The Lady and the Hooligan" was AMAZING.

But then it turned out that Mukhortova could not manage it and they had to take all the choreography out and change the layout to frontload the sbs jumps... /sigh

Love Story was just going from one element to another. The most basic choreography you could imagine.

equatorial
09-23-2010, 05:04 AM
I agree that it's strange to expect miracles from a team that have been skating together just for several months. And actually, their twists and sbs spins ARE a miracle. I don't think we can judge the choreography as yet, when even some key elements are just a work-in-progress. And, frankly, did anyone expect that in their first season together V/T would do some Mats Ek choreography to the music by Hindemith? :lol:

pumba
09-23-2010, 06:28 AM
But I have to agree that they where not best looking pair, and I like them for that they won the gold medal in a sport where looks could mean a lot.

I would not call Torvill - Navka and Dean - Kostomarov either ;), talking about looks.
Agree with the rest.

Asli
09-23-2010, 07:17 AM
Bukin's skating skills were not good? They were remarkable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FpGPUDXo3E&feature=related

Yes, he was able to skate the Kilian very well obviously. Today our jaw drops at how close together they skated, how cleanly and with such vertical and horizontal unison. But that was the standard for top couples in that era.