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dinakt
10-29-2010, 04:26 AM
Mahbanoozadeh (8th), Messing (9th) and Dornbush (11th) each had their Senior debut at Nationals last season. Along with Aaron, Alex Zahradnicek and Timothy Dolensky (1st year Jr.) are the 3 Junior men who competed on the JGP this fall. Zahradnicek and Dolensky are scheduled to compete Jr. at Easterns next month. Both Aaron and Zahradnicek are in their final season of ISU Junior age eligibility as well.

ETA: Max Aaron, Joshua Farris and Jason Brown are the 3 "who just turned Senior" skaters that will be vying for a 2011 Junior Worlds berth. Both Brown's and Farris' ISU age this season is 15, so they have 3 more years of ISU Junior age eligibility left starting in 2011-12.

You are awesome:)

Sylvia
10-29-2010, 04:52 AM
Oops, I contradicted myself above :lol: -- Max Aaron will still be Junior at 2011 Nationals (after winning the Junior bronze at 2010 Nationals, he was quoted as saying how much he was looking forward to moving up to Senior in the U.S. next season but he and his coach later decided against it).

judgejudy27
10-29-2010, 05:41 AM
From what I've read on this board, I think most believe that Evan is clearly a better competitor, but Jeremy is better when he is "on", such as at 2010 nationals. It depends on whether you're judging them both at their absolute best or by how they typically skate in competition. If we're judging by the former, I don't think it's crazy at all to call Jeremy the top US man.

Maybe, but who would win in front of an international panel if both skated their best? That is clearly Evan, love him or hate him.

RockTheTassel
10-29-2010, 05:48 AM
Maybe, but who would win in front of an international panel if both skated their best? That is clearly Evan, love him or hate him.

I never denied that. I said it depends on whether you judge them by the absolute best we've seen from them or by how they typically skate in competition (national and international). The former would be Jeremy and the latter would be Evan, IMO.

judgejudy27
10-29-2010, 06:14 AM
The thing is if you dont dispute that if they both skated their absolute best in an international event that Evan would win, then Evan is better even if they both skate their best in a competitive scenario as well. For example Jeremy did skate his best in the short program at Worlds last year and found himself 6th, over 8 points back of Takahashi. Evan did skate his best in the short program at the Olympics and found himself 2nd in a much stronger field, ahead of a clean Takahashi. So if it is based on who is going to win if both are at their best, atleast outside of Nationals, then that is clearly Evan over Abbott as well (despite that Evan is about my least favorite skater, that is still pretty clear).

So the only way you could say Abbott being better is more enjoyable to watch or more talented if you feel that way which is fine. People still say that with Weir vs Lysacek too, which is probably also true. However I am referring to people who were referring to Abbott being a bigger threat for the Olympics than Evan after Nationals last year which was ridiculous. Evan is far more consistent on the international stage than Abbott, and his respect level with international judges was light years higher which is the main reason he would destroy Abbott in an international event if both skate their best. So it made no sense to think Abbott was now the #1 American going into the Olympics as many (some in this thread) did state at the time.

RockTheTassel
10-29-2010, 07:09 AM
The thing is if you dont dispute that if they both skated their absolute best in an international event that Evan would win, then Evan is better even if they both skate their best in a competitive scenario as well. For example Jeremy did skate his best in the short program at Worlds last year and found himself 6th, over 8 points back of Takahashi. Evan did skate his best in the short program at the Olympics and found himself 2nd in a much stronger field, ahead of a clean Takahashi. So if it is based on who is going to win if both are at their best, atleast outside of Nationals, then that is clearly Evan over Abbott as well (despite that Evan is about my least favorite skater, that is still pretty clear).

So the only way you could say Abbott being better is more enjoyable to watch or more talented if you feel that way which is fine. People still say that with Weir vs Lysacek too, which is probably also true. However I am referring to people who were referring to Abbott being a bigger threat for the Olympics than Evan after Nationals last year which was ridiculous. Evan is far more consistent on the international stage than Abbott, and his respect level with international judges was light years higher which is the main reason he would destroy Abbott in an international event if both skate their best. So it made no sense to think Abbott was now the #1 American going into the Olympics as many (some in this thread) did state at the time.

While Evan does tend to score better than Jeremy, your example of how Evan would win is a little far fetched. You're talking about different competitions and adding another skater into the mix.

I do agree that if Jeremy and Evan skated to the best of their abilities in the same international competition, the judges would probably give the win to Evan (unfairly, in my opinion) at this stage. But in the past, I think Jeremy might have had a shot.

museksk8r
10-29-2010, 02:34 PM
For example Jeremy did skate his best in the short program at Worlds last year and found himself 6th, over 8 points back of Takahashi. Evan did skate his best in the short program at the Olympics and found himself 2nd in a much stronger field, ahead of a clean Takahashi.

If Evan had gone to Worlds in Torino after finishing 9th at the Olympics when he could have medaled or heck, won the whole thing, which I believe Abbott's Nationals performances could have done if repeated in Vancouver, then Lysacek would have felt the sting of judging backlash too. The judging panel throws you to the curb on the PCS marks when you don't live up to expectations. Jeremy is infinitely a better skater than Evan in every possible way, IMO, but consistency plays a huge factor in the scores you receive and Lysacek with his quadless program and less complex choreography knows how to play that game very well. If Evan had skated Jeremy's much more difficult 2010 season LP, I highly doubt he would be able to skate it clean. Jeremy's skates at the 2010 Nationals far and away trumps anything Evan has ever done on the ice IMHO. Evan could finish 1st at the Olympics while Jeremy places 24th at Nationals, and I would still think Abbott is the better skater. I don't need the ISU judges to dictate to me who the better skater is; I can do that on my own. :P

purple skates
10-29-2010, 02:54 PM
Rippon STILL has those dang annoying crossovers, for one thing!

I am two pages behind at the moment in reading, so this may have already been mentioned, but I wanted to comment on this.

I was absolutely thrilled to see much improvement in this area at the Japan Open (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by3bWX-JaR8).

Theatregirl1122
10-29-2010, 05:46 PM
Anyone who has been watching skating for more than a year and still thinks they can predict anything with absolute certainty must have a completely flat learning curve.

I would say that Jeremy has a better chance of winning Nationals than Adam. Jeremy has been putting out his best skates at nationals the last few years. Although, with two national titles under his belt, Jeremy may have come to a point where he has realized (like Evan did the last two years) that the National title is not really what you are skating for. Especially not when you already have a couple. Adam hasn't been on the podium at Nationals yet, so he may be more fired up for Nationals. But honestly, although I prefer Adam, I think either of them can win on any given day.

However, I think that the battle for the third spot will be much more interesting. Carriere and Mroz both have worlds experience, but Stephen hasn't been skating anywhere near that level for a long time. Brandon basically lives and dies with the quad and 3A. When he hits them, the whole program goes well. When he misses them, even the easy stuff seems to come off the rails. Messing, Dornbush, Hochstein have the highest international scores (190+) of the younger guys. Miner skated pretty clean in Canada and his score wasn't very high. I'm not sure Armin has put two clean skates together in the past year but he's got a lot of potential. I can't wait to see how this plays out.

RFOS
10-29-2010, 06:11 PM
Don't forget that Bradley may compete also, if he's working on turning his exhibition program into a long program. I agree that it should be interesting. :)

Theatregirl1122
10-29-2010, 06:15 PM
Don't forget that Bradley may compete also, if he's working on turning his exhibition program into a long program. I agree that it should be interesting. :)

Ah, for some reason I thought he was out for the year.

genevieve
10-29-2010, 07:07 PM
Don't forget that Bradley may compete also, if he's working on turning his exhibition program into a long program. I agree that it should be interesting. :)

I would love for Abbott, Rippon and Bradley to be our Worlds team this year.

RockTheTassel
10-29-2010, 07:14 PM
I would love for Abbott, Rippon and Bradley to be our Worlds team this year.

I would love that too. With Johnny and Evan not competing, there's definitely a good chance that Ryan could go to Worlds. I don't know how serious he is about possibly competing, but it'd be fun to see his Willy Wonka program.

Jenna
10-30-2010, 05:31 AM
Ryan's lastest tweet:

"Is it possible to make a comeback if you don't take a season off?"

A hint!? :D

Marlowe
10-30-2010, 07:30 AM
Rippon STILL has those dang annoying crossovers, for one thing!

Would you - or anyone else - mind explaining what it wrong with Rippon's crossovers? I'm not a skater and although I can pretty much tell one jump from another, but I'm afraid my crossover education is quite weak!