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Polymer Bob
08-08-2010, 01:44 PM
Top 10 Senior Ladies Combined Scores this Summer:

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6. FLATT - 149.33 (Glacier Falls)
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Quite interesting...

The judges at those club comps play HARDBALL !!!!! :eek:

RD
08-08-2010, 07:00 PM
Top 10 Senior Ladies Combined Scores this Summer:

1. GAO - 159.07 (Detroit)
2. GONG - 153.92 (Glacier Falls)
3. ZAWADZKI - 153.82 (Liberty)
4. WAGNER - 153.17 (Wilmington)
5. LAM - 149.76 (Hidden Valley) <-------- before new rules were in place.
6. FLATT - 149.33 (Glacier Falls)
7. CESARIO - 147.26 (Liberty)
8. DAVIS - 135.77 (Glacier Falls)
9. SIRAJ - 131.48 (Liberty)
10. FORTE - 129.71 (Liberty)

Quite interesting...

I know it's only the "preseason" period, but none of those scores are particularly breaking the bank, now, are they?


Told you that Gao is for real :) . Also, I'm wondering, any news on Kimmie? Not that I think she'll be a podium factor really, but more just wondering if she's going to compete again, it would be interesting to see her at nationals this year.

:lol: we can talk AFTER Gao is able to get on the world team and place high enough to get us back three spots (if we don't already have them).

and about Meissner- she hasn't said anything but I'm leaning towards no. Usually, if a skater intends to compete, we'd know by now, right?

pinky166
08-09-2010, 01:21 AM
I know it's only the "preseason" period, but none of those scores are particularly breaking the bank, now, are they?



:lol: we can talk AFTER Gao is able to get on the world team and place high enough to get us back three spots (if we don't already have them).

and about Meissner- she hasn't said anything but I'm leaning towards no. Usually, if a skater intends to compete, we'd know by now, right?

I think scores tend to be lower in the summer, especially for skaters who are doing GP because the circuit doesn't start until mid-october. The JGP skaters have to have their programs ready earlier because JGP starts in late august, so that may be part of the reason why skaters like Gao, Cesario, Gong have been so impressive this summer and Wagner, Flatt, Gilles have been a bit underwhelming compared to their usual standards.

About Kimmie, I tend to think she won't compete, but I heard she said she was determined to compete soo idk? Also she did a show back in may and was landing double axels and triple toes nicely so I tend to think she's not injured anymore.

Looking at this list, I'm wondering if Cesario and Gong could be spoilers for the nationals podium this year...Gong landed 2a-3t in her FS at GF and Cesario has a beautiful style and both girls are flexible and have improved their jumps a lot. I don't think it's out of the question, especially if Caroline and Alissa continue to skate like they did last season.

haribobo
08-09-2010, 05:02 AM
I was bored today so I decided to come up with my own rankings using US Nationals 2010 results combined with summer results scores. I placed the qualifiers for the tiers in parentheses. There's no exact science to how I placed them within the tiers- I took into account last season's international results to some degree for that. Summer scores are listed next to their names- thanks to the IJS Scoretracker for the easy access to those scores!

Summer Rankings thru August 8, 2010

TIER 1 (Top 6 @ 2010 or 150+)
1 Rachael Flatt 149
2 Mirai Nagasu
3 Ashley Wagner 153
4 Christina Gao 159
5 Agnes Zawadzki 153
6 Kristiene Gong 153
7 Amanda Dobbs
8 Sasha Cohen

TIER 2 (Top 12 @ 2010 or 140+)
9 Samantha Cesario 147
10 Vanessa Lam 149 (pre rules change)
11 Alissa Czisny
12 Caroline Zhang
13 Kristine Musademba (intl results exception)
14 Alexe Gilles 119
15 Melissa Bulanhagui 110

TIER 3
16 Lindsay Davis 135
17 Yasmin Siraj 131
18 Joelle Forte 129
19 Carolyn Ann Alba 127
20 Becky Bereswill
21 Kiri Baga
22 Felicia Zhang

Jenna
08-09-2010, 05:21 AM
I know it's only the "preseason" period, but none of those scores are particularly breaking the bank, now, are they?

No, they are not. However, it is only preseason. These skaters are certainly not in the shape they will be in come two months time. Wagner vlogged about how her FS at Wilmington was only the 4th time she skated her entire long program. She also intentionally singled jumps. I posted the lists not to compare points but to get an idea of who might be producing some interesting and surprising results this next quadrennial.

bek
08-09-2010, 06:20 AM
But she is a formidable jumper, and that is a huge part of the sport. Kiri and Anna have the total package. When they are on, they are ON, and it is difficult to beat them.

I don't think either Kiri or Anna are the total package. As far as I'm concerned neither girl is a good jumper and jumps are a part of this sport. Kiri doesn't have the jump arsenal and is inconsistent maybe the jumps will get better but we have to see. And Anna's jumping technique is terrible and she's extremely inconsistent. When I think of Anna, I think Russia's Czisny. Beautiful skater but a big part of the package is missing. Unless Anna's jumps improve at a tremendous rate, I don't think she's going to have a successful senior career. Because to be quite frank the competition in Russia is just going to be huge. And no way will they beat in the end on someone that inconsistent when they have several others who are more consistent/reliable.

As for Gao vs Shelepen I'd argue that both girls have work to do when it comes to presentation. Christina has improved but especially in her long there's still a bit of an awkwardness. I don't think that Christina is a better spinner than Polina at all. (Not that Polina is great). I think that Polina may but I have never seen both live actually have more speed than Gao.

Polina definetly needs work on presentation/polish!!! And Christina may actually have better jumping technique. (Although Polina is more consistent with all the triples and Gao struggles with the loop) But I think people are forgetting the fact that Polina is also a year younger than Gao too and so frankly Gao should be further along in that area than Christina.

The fact is though that if Polina wants to be even make Senior competitions for Russia she's going to have to improve her presentation/polish because the competition to just make the Russian team in the next couple of years is going to be huge. I'm not completely willing to write of that its impossible for Polina to improve these things because Polina is very young.

I wouldn't though say Christina is better than Polina when Christina has never beaten Shelepen. Or better than Anna when Anna beat her 2 out 3 times last season. Yes Christina has improved but we haven't seen Anna or Polina yet, they could have improved too.

As for the US seniors, I don't see Christina really going to worlds this year but I think Agnes Z has a real shot at making the team. Agnes jumps are just spectacular and she has nice presentation. The one thing I think that holds Agnes back is her speed/stroking. Its too bad because otherwise she'd be challenging for world podiums.

Jenna
08-09-2010, 06:40 AM
Actually, I consider both of them to be good jumpers. Watch Anna's SP at WJC 2010 or Kiri's SP at JGP Dresden. However, I do agree with you that consistency is the key issue for both these girls. The aforementioned performances would be difficult to beat on the JGP circuit for sure. Of course, the question is, how often could they bring the good likes that? Kiri does 3S, 3T, and 3F. She has attempted the lutz and has landed it in small, local competitions in the US. Anna has all of the triples. So, I do refute that neither of them is a good jumper. I think they are good, but surely inconsistent jumpers.

freezin'rinkmom
08-09-2010, 07:56 AM
The judges at those club comps play HARDBALL !!!!! :eek:

If you take into consideration Flatt has been back on the ice training for all of a month, not a bad start. The other girls have essentially been finished since late January/early Feb. The SGP skaters shouldn't be peaking with full out programs the first weekend of August! ;)

bek
08-09-2010, 01:37 PM
Actually, I consider both of them to be good jumpers. Watch Anna's SP at WJC 2010 or Kiri's SP at JGP Dresden. However, I do agree with you that consistency is the key issue for both these girls. The aforementioned performances would be difficult to beat on the JGP circuit for sure. Of course, the question is, how often could they bring the good likes that? Kiri does 3S, 3T, and 3F. She has attempted the lutz and has landed it in small, local competitions in the US. Anna has all of the triples. So, I do refute that neither of them is a good jumper. I think they are good, but surely inconsistent jumpers.

Anna's jumping technique is horrific. And part of being a good jumper is having a competitive jump arsenal, something that Kiri doesn't have yet.

Polymer Bob
08-09-2010, 01:49 PM
If you take into consideration Flatt has been back on the ice training for all of a month, not a bad start. The other girls have essentially been finished since late January/early Feb. The SGP skaters shouldn't be peaking with full out programs the first weekend of August! ;)

You may be right. Rachael has the first GP event in Japan. We will see how she has progressed. Of the top U.S. ladies, the heavy hitters are fairly well scattered among the events ..... FAIRLY well. Alissa and Mirai both go to Paris, and Rachael and Caroline both go the same events.

Because they share 2 events, it seems unlikely that Rachael and Caroline can both make the Final.

RD
08-09-2010, 05:55 PM
No, they are not. However, it is only preseason. These skaters are certainly not in the shape they will be in come two months time. Wagner vlogged about how her FS at Wilmington was only the 4th time she skated her entire long program. She also intentionally singled jumps. I posted the lists not to compare points but to get an idea of who might be producing some interesting and surprising results this next quadrennial.

ok, I see.

Still, I maintain that I've grown to take early competition results with a large grain of salt. Looking at that list, it might seem interesting to see skaters like Gao and Zawadzki hold their own with skaters like Wagner and Flatt, but as pointed out earlier- a) the JGP begins earlier, and b) the senior skaters are just warming up and they don't really need to be competition-ready for another 2-3 months.

IOW- what I'm really trying to say is that I don't think that list is a great indicator of where everyone stands, nor a good predictor of what might happen at nationals...again, though, that's the skeptic in me.

Sylvia
08-09-2010, 07:48 PM
Due to Champs Camp being held in late August this year, it is my understanding that the Senior Grand Prix skaters/teams not in the Team A envelope aren't required to compete in a summer comp. unless they want to or are being monitored for a Senior B event. Flatt and Nagasu are the 2 ladies in Team A this season -- Flatt usually chooses to compete more than once each summer, while Nagasu normally just does Golden West on Labor Day weekend (don't know if she is planning to do so this year since it's the weekend after Champs Camp). 4 of the 9 U.S. ladies with GP assignments (Czisny, Zhang, Dobbs, and Musademba) haven't competed a full competition AFAIK, and will do their program run throughs for monitoring at Champs Camp, along with Flatt, Nagasu, Wagner, Zawadzki, and Gilles.

Polymer Bob
08-09-2010, 08:11 PM
4 of the 9 U.S. ladies with GP assignments (Czisny, Zhang, Dobbs, and Musademba) haven't competed a full competition AFAIK, and will do their program run throughs for monitoring at Champs Camp, along with Flatt, Nagasu, Wagner, Zawadzki, and Gilles.

I don't believe Mirai has done a full competition either.

Sylvia
08-09-2010, 08:15 PM
I don't believe Mirai has done a full competition either.
She isn't required to (being in A), which is why I didn't list her with the 4 others (who aren't required to this year either). I could have worded it better.

Anyway, I give Flatt and Gilles props for competing at Glacier Falls this past weekend when they didn't have to -- it can be beneficial to get programs out there early even if the scores end up being low or relatively low.

Stephanie
08-09-2010, 08:43 PM
Due to Champs Camp being held in late August this year, it is my understanding that the Senior Grand Prix skaters/teams not in the Team A envelope aren't required to compete in a summer comp. unless they want to or are being monitored for a Senior B event...4 of the 9 U.S. ladies with GP assignments (Czisny, Zhang, Dobbs, and Musademba) haven't competed a full competition AFAIK

I'm actually quite surprised that neither Dobbs nor Musademba wanted to be monitored for senior Bs like Nebelhorn or Finlandia since they both only have 1 GP and Musademba has been out of competition for almost a year. IIRC Becky Bereswill, who I thought would be in contention for a senior B, hasn't competed either.