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Jenna
08-05-2010, 03:32 AM
I don't think Gao was robbed of PCS at Nationals. Mistakes and all, Cohen was rightfully marked ahead of her. And honestly, I don't see Cohen as being gifted either. She had rightfully the highest PCS in the SP, but in the LP, she was behind all of the top 3 (even Rachael Flatt...).

oleada
08-05-2010, 03:37 AM
Yeah, I'm not seeing the robbing for PCS for Gao. Her basics aren't great, her programs were pretty barebones last year and her interpretation and expression are pretty dry.

pinky166
08-05-2010, 04:07 AM
Yeah, I'm not seeing the robbing for PCS for Gao. Her basics aren't great, her programs were pretty barebones last year and her interpretation and expression are pretty dry.

I guess, but her international competition - Murakami, Baga, Shelepen, Ovcharova - all very comparable to Gao (except maybe Murakami who's a little better, but Christina is probably better than the other 3), came very close to breaking 60 points (meaning 59+ or for Kiri almost 59) for a SP last season internationally at junior level competitions where PCS are usually kept low. I think Christina's SP score could have been a few points higher.

Jenna
08-05-2010, 04:11 AM
She seems to have improved based on the Detroit videos, though. However, her spin positions need work...:eek:

oleada
08-05-2010, 04:14 AM
I guess, but her international competition - Murakami, Baga, Shelepen, Ovcharova - all very comparable to Gao (except maybe Murakami who's a little better, but Christina is probably better than the other 3), came very close to breaking 60 points (meaning 59+ or for Kiri almost 59) for a SP last season internationally at junior level competitions where PCS are usually kept low. I think Christina's SP score could have been a few points higher.

Baga, Ovcharova & Murakami are much better than Gao when it comes to expression, musicality & interpretation. Baga & Murakami also have better basics. Besides, the PCS from competition to competition aren't comparable.

pinky166
08-06-2010, 02:00 AM
Baga, Ovcharova & Murakami are much better than Gao when it comes to expression, musicality & interpretation. Baga & Murakami also have better basics. Besides, the PCS from competition to competition aren't comparable.

I mean I guess, but oftentimes Baga, Shelepen, Ovcharova come across as hot messes when they skate, and Christina doesn't.

Autumn_girl
08-06-2010, 10:51 AM
I mean I guess, but oftentimes Baga, Shelepen, Ovcharova come across as hot messes when they skate, and Christina doesn't.

Shelepen does and Gao doesn't? I don't think so. Polina beat her several times and skated cleaner, BTW, she is a better jumper

pinky166
08-06-2010, 07:48 PM
Shelepen does and Gao doesn't? I don't think so. Polina beat her several times and skated cleaner, BTW, she is a better jumper

Shelepen's jumps are better but her spins are a mess and her presentation is blah. If she ever loses her difficult 3-3s, she is most likely toast, she really doesn't have much going on in her programs and ignores the music for the most part. Anna is fun to watch and can be excellent when she skates well but when she misses her jumps the program comes undone a bit and all the energy just makes the overall effect sloppy. The same can be said of Kiri only to an even greater degreee, when she hits her jumps, everything works great, but as soon as she starts messing up on her jumps, her commanding presence is lost and the performance goes south quick. Christina seems to keep herself together better than most of these other girls, even when she makes mistakes, she stays into her programs and doesn't flip out.

Jenna
08-06-2010, 07:59 PM
I agree that Polina S. needs to work on presentation. But she is a formidable jumper, and that is a huge part of the sport. Kiri and Anna have the total package. When they are on, they are ON, and it is difficult to beat them. However, they are less consistent with the jumps and that often allows strong jumpers (Polina S.) to slip ahead of them. Christina has made many improvements from last year in nearly every aspect of her skating. Again, it comes down to consistency. She can hang with the above 3 when she's on. However, I said it once and I will say it again. Christina needs to improve the spinning for sure. She will not score high in that area compared to the above 3. (Kiri and Anna are especially good spinners). So, I think the JGP will be interesting this year. I could easily see all of the above 4 at the final. They all were last year.

oleada
08-06-2010, 08:04 PM
Shelepen's jumps are better but her spins are a mess and her presentation is blah. If she ever loses her difficult 3-3s, she is most likely toast, she really doesn't have much going on in her programs and ignores the music for the most part. Anna is fun to watch and can be excellent when she skates well but when she misses her jumps the program comes undone a bit and all the energy just makes the overall effect sloppy. The same can be said of Kiri only to an even greater degreee, when she hits her jumps, everything works great, but as soon as she starts messing up on her jumps, her commanding presence is lost and the performance goes south quick. Christina seems to keep herself together better than most of these other girls, even when she makes mistakes, she stays into her programs and doesn't flip out.

Polina's spins are better than Christina's - Gao is not a great spinner herself.

I can't think of a single time Murakami has been "a hot mess" in the past season.

pinky166
08-07-2010, 12:43 AM
Polina's spins are better than Christina's - Gao is not a great spinner herself.

I can't think of a single time Murakami has been "a hot mess" in the past season.

I was referring more to Shelepen, Ovcharova, and Kiri when I said that as I pointed out in the beginning that Kanako is clearly better than Christina at this point.

Polina has some nice spins but others are really kind of 2nd rate (in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tmC6AYAQpQ , her first spin is nice but the one starting at 2:20 when she pulls her leg up to her head the extension should be better or she should use 2 hands to hold it up and then the spin position with her free leg at a 90 degree angle from the knee I just don't understand as it's not attractive at all, the same goes for the spin starting at 3:30, the girl seems pretty flexible so I don't know why she doesn't choice nicer positions for her spins). Her footwork could also be improved, I really think more speed would help this girl out, she has loads of potential but isn't quite there yet. IMO Gao is more of a complete package at this point than Shelepen.

ITA about Kiri and Anna though, and if Kiri gets more technical difficulty (consistent 3lz and 3f and maybe a 3-3) your statement will be even more true and she will be a force to be reckoned with if she skates cleanly.

Autumn_girl
08-07-2010, 07:20 AM
IMO Gao is more of a complete package at this point than Shelepen.


I think they are pretty comparable and Shelepen was even better, her PCS at the JGPF and JW were higher than Gao's. Yes, Christina improved a lot and looked good at summer competition, but we didn't see Polina yet and maybe she improved too (I'm almost sure she did). And there are still other girls like Tuktamysheva who have it all.


ITA about Kiri and Anna though, and if Kiri gets more technical difficulty (consistent 3lz and 3f and maybe a 3-3) your statement will be even more true and she will be a force to be reckoned with if she skates cleanly.
That's a big if... Kiri is not a good jumper and to get consistent 3Lz and 3F (and 3Lo too, she needs it this season and she didn't do it last year) sometimes can take years, and she was injured AFAIK, so I don't think she will get technical difficulty

pinky166
08-07-2010, 03:12 PM
I think they are pretty comparable and Shelepen was even better, her PCS at the JGPF and JW were higher than Gao's. Yes, Christina improved a lot and looked good at summer competition, but we didn't see Polina yet and maybe she improved too (I'm almost sure she did). And there are still other girls like Tuktamysheva who have it all.

That's a big if... Kiri is not a good jumper and to get consistent 3Lz and 3F (and 3Lo too, she needs it this season and she didn't do it last year) sometimes can take years, and she was injured AFAIK, so I don't think she will get technical difficulty

Kiri has very big jumps and good speed so I'm thinking this may help her get the more difficult jumps mastered.

And maybe you are right about Shelepen, I know she was injured this summer though and has had another growth spurt, but she is scheduled to compete at the first JGP which is in a few weeks so that should give us a good idea of how she's doing now. Also, I think all JGP eligible girls in Russia are having test skates over the next few days to determine which skaters get 2 assignments, etc, so maybe we will hear some news.

As for Christina, I think a lot will depend on how skaters like Zhang, Czisny, and potentially even Flatt and Wagner are looking this season, I think there is a possibility she could make the World team this season as I don't think her beating the above 4 skaters at nationals is entirely out of the question at this point. I highly doubt she can beat Mirai this season unless Mirai's injury is very serious and hinders her progress, but I do think Nagasu and Gao will likely be the top 2 US ladies in the coming years, realistically 2011 onward but maybe even this year.

Jenna
08-08-2010, 08:35 AM
Top 10 Senior Ladies Combined Scores this Summer:

1. GAO - 159.07 (Detroit)
2. GONG - 153.92 (Glacier Falls)
3. ZAWADZKI - 153.82 (Liberty)
4. WAGNER - 153.17 (Wilmington)
5. LAM - 149.76 (Hidden Valley) <-------- before new rules were in place.
6. FLATT - 149.33 (Glacier Falls)
7. CESARIO - 147.26 (Liberty)
8. DAVIS - 135.77 (Glacier Falls)
9. SIRAJ - 131.48 (Liberty)
10. FORTE - 129.71 (Liberty)

Quite interesting...

pinky166
08-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Top 10 Senior Ladies Combined Scores this Summer:

1. GAO - 159.07 (Detroit)
2. GONG - 153.92 (Glacier Falls)
3. ZAWADZKI - 153.82 (Liberty)
4. WAGNER - 153.17 (Wilmington)
5. LAM - 149.76 (Hidden Valley) <-------- before new rules were in place.
6. FLATT - 149.33 (Glacier Falls)
7. CESARIO - 147.26 (Liberty)
8. DAVIS - 135.77 (Glacier Falls)
9. SIRAJ - 131.48 (Liberty)
10. FORTE - 129.71 (Liberty)

Quite interesting...

Told you that Gao is for real :). Also, I'm wondering, any news on Kimmie? Not that I think she'll be a podium factor really, but more just wondering if she's going to compete again, it would be interesting to see her at nationals this year.