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RD
11-29-2010, 05:09 AM
I think Olympic was speaking not so much of competition results or clean skating, but rather that Ashley sometimes takes on more than she seems able to handle. Her programs are packed with choreography and transitions, and she usually has a good amount of jumps in the second half of her long program. She also always attempts the lutz, even though it's a weak jump for her. The only thing she's held back on are the triple-triples, but she recently tried those again as well. Say what you want about Ashely, but you cannot deny that she really goes for it in her skating. Even though I know that hurts her results at times, I really like that about her.

Same here, actually. A lot of skaters turn out to be good short program skaters but mess up big in the free. Wagner has the opposite problem; she is typically a good freeskater. If she can just get her SP under control, she's a threat for the National title. I'd say once again that Flatt is the favorite (not the overwhelming favorite, but she is the defending champ). It'll be interesting to see how she deals with being the chased rather than the chaser. The undoing of countless skaters.

crawall
11-29-2010, 07:31 AM
In Pinky's defense, I think Christina has made great strides this year in selling herself. And I also agree, she is such a great girl. But I am sure they all are! I do like Agnes's huge jumps, but there is just something not quite right there, Speed? Choreography? Is it her height? I can't quite put my finger on it but I just can't get behind her in her programs. I'm not invested. I think the best skaters make you watch them, love or hate the program. The current top 4 or 5 in the US just don't pull me into their story.

geod2
11-29-2010, 09:32 AM
I think Olympic was speaking not so much of competition results or clean skating, but rather that Ashley sometimes takes on more than she seems able to handle. Her programs are packed with choreography and transitions, and she usually has a good amount of jumps in the second half of her long program. She also always attempts the lutz, even though it's a weak jump for her. The only thing she's held back on are the triple-triples, but she recently tried those again as well. Say what you want about Ashely, but you cannot deny that she really goes for it in her skating. Even though I know that hurts her results at times, I really like that about her.


ITA. I like that about her too, and when she's "on" she's very enjoyable to watch.

olympic
11-29-2010, 12:44 PM
"Ashley the overachiever"?? umm... ok :lol:

Thank you Pinky and Rockthetassel. That is exactly what I meant. Sorry, that should've been clearer.

I'm torn. I'd love to see Mirai and Ashley make up the team, but I think Rachael the rock is key to 3 spots for 2012. If I had to bet $$$ on the highest likelihood of who will be clean, it's Rachael.

Polymer Bob
11-29-2010, 01:29 PM
Overall, I think our U.S. senior ladies have done quite well on the SGP this season! In fact, according to my calculations, their 6 medals this season (1 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze) are the most in one GP season since 2001 (where they won 8, but that was when skaters could compete in 3 GP events a season). :)

Also, it's the first time the U.S. has qualified two ladies competitors to the GPF since 2007! :)

And here are few more statistsics. The last time a U.S. lady made the Final podium was Sasha in 2003. The last time a U.S. lady won was Sasha in 2002. In fact, since 1995, 3 U.S. ladies ( Michelle, Tara and Sasha ) have won a total of 4 Finals.

Maximillian
11-29-2010, 08:43 PM
Thank you Pinky and Rockthetassel. That is exactly what I meant. Sorry, that should've been clearer.

I'm torn. I'd love to see Mirai and Ashley make up the team, but I think Rachael the rock is key to 3 spots for 2012. If I had to bet $$$ on the highest likelihood of who will be clean, it's Rachael.

I think that a last season proved that even a less than clean Nagasu is equal to if not better than a clean Flatt. Flatt is a 3rd-8th place skater at Worlds this year (and that's being very, very kind), Nagasu is a 1st-6th place skater. A less than clean Nagasu can defeat a clean Flatt these days.

pinky166
11-29-2010, 09:12 PM
I think that a last season proved that even a less than clean Nagasu is equal to if not better than a clean Flatt. Flatt is a 3rd-8th place skater at Worlds this year (and that's being very, very kind), Nagasu is a 1st-6th place skater. A less than clean Nagasu can defeat a clean Flatt these days.

I know this team may be boring, but I'd feel most comfortable with a team of Flatt and Gao just because they are most consistent with their jumps. Mirai seems to be on the upswing and is getting more consistent and at her best is the best US lady, so if the team is her accompanied by either Flatt or Gao that should be fine too. But honestly, a team of Nagasu-Czisny or Czisny-Wagner is just too risky IMO, and a team of Nagasu-Wagner is better but hardly. It's just really hard to tell what they'll do especially where they are all prone to edge calls, Alissa and Mirai are prone to URs, Ashley is prone to 2-footing (and URs too now that I think of it), and they all can be seriously shaken by nerves.

I think Agnes has potential but her LPs are troubling and her PCS are still fairly low due to her lack of reputation. She has nice jumps, but at this point I'd say Gao is heavy edge to her, just because she's performed better thus far this season. Also, Gao is a strong freeskater, so I tend to think if she were to go to Worlds, even if she was a little farther back after the SP, she'd likely be able to pull up significantly during the FS just because she is one of the few ladies you can count on to land 6-7 rotated triples in the FS, and all those Euro ladies especially seem to have big issues in the FS.

smarts1
11-29-2010, 09:20 PM
That still doesn't make her interesting.

:lol: I agree with that. Christina just doesn't have the eye-grabbing attention that Mirai and Ashley seem to possess.

And to pinky-- I don't know why you have so much faith in Christina. She's also someone who is prone to making things if things don't go right, and as someone who hasn't even skated in a senior international competition, I don't think it's right to send her over the other more experienced senior ladies we have now. Sure, Christina has made great improvements to her skating and is on track to be a great US ladies skater, but now is not her time... Yet, at least...

pinky166
11-29-2010, 09:27 PM
:lol: I agree with that. Christina just doesn't have the eye-grabbing attention that Mirai and Ashley seem to possess.

She's working on it though. She is a very different girl than she was last year. She no longer looks like such a little girl and has grown in to a striking young lady with a beautiful face and a body build that's delicate but strong and muscular at the same time. Her skating has a similar dynamic of softness and strength, PJ Kwong calls her the Iron Butterfly :). It's hard to detect her improvement from those grainy videos from the JGP, but she has been wowing the crowds at the shows she's been participating in recently. She's trying to be very expressive now too, and it really comes across when you see her skating live.

pinky166
11-29-2010, 09:30 PM
:lol: I agree with that. Christina just doesn't have the eye-grabbing attention that Mirai and Ashley seem to possess.

And to pinky-- I don't know why you have so much faith in Christina. She's also someone who is prone to making things if things don't go right, and as someone who hasn't even skated in a senior international competition, I don't think it's right to send her over the other more experienced senior ladies we have now. Sure, Christina has made great improvements to her skating and is on track to be a great US ladies skater, but now is not her time... Yet, at least...

There was an article about Christina on icenetwork from this summer and Christina herself admitted her goal is to compete at senior worlds this season, I don't think she'd be saying that openly if she and/or Brian didn't think she could handle competing at Worlds this season. Plus you see skaters make the jump a lot, I mean, Ksenia was competing on the JGP last season and then went on to skate very well at the Olympics and Worlds.

olympic
11-29-2010, 10:27 PM
I think that a last season proved that even a less than clean Nagasu is equal to if not better than a clean Flatt. Flatt is a 3rd-8th place skater at Worlds this year (and that's being very, very kind), Nagasu is a 1st-6th place skater. A less than clean Nagasu can defeat a clean Flatt these days.

Not sure. In Vancouver, Mirai clean in the SP garnered 63 + pts., Rachael garnered 64 + pts. In the LP, clean Rachael got dinged [unfairly IMO] in the LP to score 117 + pts., and Nagasu clean got 126 pts., Rachael probably should've only been behind Mirai in total pts. by only 2 pts. with both clean.

At 2010 Worlds, Mirai scored 70 pts. with a questionable rotation on the 3-3, while normally consistent Rachael ran into problems and scored 60 + pts. Both had issues in the LP and Rachael outscored Mirai in the LP.

This year, they're extremely close in pt. totals. Rachael is getting over tendonitis and Mirai lost training time due to stress fracture, so pretty even this year, too.

burntBREAD
11-29-2010, 11:22 PM
Not sure. In Vancouver, Mirai clean in the SP garnered 63 + pts., Rachael garnered 64 + pts. In the LP, clean Rachael got dinged [unfairly IMO] in the LP to score 117 + pts., and Nagasu clean got 126 pts., Rachael probably should've only been behind Mirai in total pts. by only 2 pts. with both clean.

At 2010 Worlds, Mirai scored 70 pts. with a questionable rotation on the 3-3, while normally consistent Rachael ran into problems and scored 60 + pts. Both had issues in the LP and Rachael outscored Mirai in the LP.

This year, they're extremely close in pt. totals. Rachael is getting over tendonitis and Mirai lost training time due to stress fracture, so pretty even this year, too.

At the Olympics SP, Mirai had the 4th highest TES (higher than Flatt and Ando), but got shafted with the 10th highest PCS because she was placed in an earlier group, and I feel that she was slightly underscored in the LP (she got a level 2 on her spiral sequence, I'm not sure why, I thought maybe she didn't hold the positions long enough but I rewatched and counted a she did). She should have been 4th after the SP. At Worlds, Mirai was downgraded on the 3-3 (I know a lot of people thought she unfairly got credit but protocols show that she was indeed downgraded), she got such a high school because everything else was brilliant. Her score with the 3-3 ratified would have been even higher.

mgobluegirl
11-30-2010, 12:45 AM
I saw Gao this summer at Skate Detroit (yes I know that was really early in the season), and I agree she's made incredible strides in the presentation aspects of her skating (not to mention adding a :swoon: 3F-3T). But I still think she looks a little juniorish. The movements still looked stiff and a little awkward. I know that this could be because it was only summer, and I'm excited to see how she looks in January. I don't think it's fair to label her as one of the most consistent skaters in the US yet though. We'll see with time if that holds up. Rachael gets that label because she's shown time and again she can put out a clean or nearly clean program.

I love the ladies event at nationals because it is legitimately between 6-8 ladies for the podium. :cheer2:

RD
11-30-2010, 01:10 AM
There was an article about Christina on icenetwork from this summer and Christina herself admitted her goal is to compete at senior worlds this season, I don't think she'd be saying that openly if she and/or Brian didn't think she could handle competing at Worlds this season. Plus you see skaters make the jump a lot, I mean, Ksenia was competing on the JGP last season and then went on to skate very well at the Olympics and Worlds.

Not impossible, but it will be a tall order with Nagasu, Wagner and Flatt in their prime. Say what you will, but I don't see it happening this time.

ETA: Still, I like the fact that she came out and said it. I like it when skaters are honest to the press (the public) about their ambitions and goals. (Like Wagner, say what you will about her "overachieving" or whatnot)

olympic
11-30-2010, 02:07 AM
At the Olympics SP, Mirai had the 4th highest TES (higher than Flatt and Ando), but got shafted with the 10th highest PCS because she was placed in an earlier group, and I feel that she was slightly underscored in the LP (she got a level 2 on her spiral sequence, I'm not sure why, I thought maybe she didn't hold the positions long enough but I rewatched and counted a she did). She should have been 4th after the SP. At Worlds, Mirai was downgraded on the 3-3 (I know a lot of people thought she unfairly got credit but protocols show that she was indeed downgraded), she got such a high school because everything else was brilliant. Her score with the 3-3 ratified would have been even higher.

Trust me. I'd rather watch Mirai than Rachael but I was just going by the scores as I recall them. I will say that Mirai and Ashley consistent and clean will leave Rachael off the team.