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oleada
11-25-2010, 02:20 AM
Erm, no.

I agree. I think Kiri's more innately musical and has better presentation than Gao. Siraj & Lam also have more interesting choreography and better presentation and musicality, IMO.


Does anyone else think Lam's jumps are a bit scary? Her jumps are quite low and seem really frantically produced...


^ As much as I like Vanessa... There's no way she's going to last with jumps like that...

She really doesn't get a lot of height.

chipso1
11-25-2010, 02:30 AM
I think even if Kiri was healthy finishing in the top 10 wouldn't be a definite. She's a nice skater but the field is quite deep this year and I don't think she's anywhere near the level of Gao, Siraj, and Lam who are all better jumpers, more consistent, and present a lot better IMO at this point. Kiri is still working on mastering most of her triples right now, so I think it will take her another season or two before she makes a big impact on the senior stage, if she does at all. Her flexibility is quite exceptional, though! Hope the injuries get better because I think that's probably part of the reason she hasn't delivered any wow performances yet this season.

Kiri's scores this season put her well within the top 10 U.S. senior ladies. I'm working on my U.S. Nationals fun with numbers threads/averages and will post them in a few weeks or when the Nationals sub-forum opens.

ETA: Though it may be unlikely that Kiri is even at Nationals. I just read the press release:


She will stay off the ice for two to three weeks, pending her response to treatment, with the expectation of resuming full skating activity in six to eight weeks.

I assume "full skating activity" means triple jumps. Wishing her the best! I would love to see her make her senior National debut this year!

chipso1
11-25-2010, 02:32 AM
She really doesn't get a lot of height.

I agree; I noticed this at Nationals last season, but they looked improved at her JGP event. But then at Pacs it looked like again she wasn't getting much height. She does rotate quite fast (almost Tara Lipinski-esque), but I can't help but wonder if her slightly jerky jump technique will hold up under a pressure situation like Nationals.

burntBREAD
11-25-2010, 02:53 AM
I agree; I noticed this at Nationals last season, but they looked improved at her JGP event. But then at Pacs it looked like again she wasn't getting much height. She does rotate quite fast (almost Tara Lipinski-esque), but I can't help but wonder if her slightly jerky jump technique will hold up under a pressure situation like Nationals.

Or if she can even keep rotating that fast after puberty a la Caroline Zhang

pinky166
11-25-2010, 04:07 AM
I agree. I think Kiri's more innately musical and has better presentation than Gao. Siraj & Lam also have more interesting choreography and better presentation and musicality, IMO.





She really doesn't get a lot of height.

Kiri was maybe more musical last season, but this season her FS is such a snoozefest and she doesn't present at all. Yasmin has great presentation and Christina really tries to be expressive.

I actually thought Vanessa's jumps looked much improved in that video of her from the JGP. Her technique seems pretty solid. I'm more worried about Kiri or Yasmin losing their jumps, because their technique is not the best and they are so tiny still.

burntBREAD
11-25-2010, 04:18 AM
I actually thought Vanessa's jumps looked much improved in that video of her from the JGP. Her technique seems pretty solid. I'm more worried about Kiri or Yasmin losing their jumps, because their technique is not the best and they are so tiny still.

I'd never seen Vanessa before that JGP video and already thought her jumps were very, very low (the triples are low and the the doubles are barely off the ice), so I'm not sure what they used to look like... :eek:, and her technique is not really that solid, it's not smooth and looks jerky, and like someone else posted, vulnerable to break down.

oleada
11-25-2010, 04:27 AM
I don't think Gao's presentation is anything special at this point, certainly very far from more senior competitors like Czisny, Nagasu, Wagner or even Flatt (and I'm not a fan, at all, but she seems to feel her choreography this year, as menopausal hot flashy as it is) or even Zawadski. I think skaters like Siraj and Baga have more wow factor and natural musicality, as does Lam, who this season, has really purposeful movements, while Christina kinda moves like someone told her to do that.

Certainly her spins are weaker than most US ladies (who are traditionally good spinners), and Nagasu & Czisny are outstanding, but Wagner is also a very good spinner, as is Baga. Zawadski's positions aren't particularly great among this group, but they're fast and centered, and when on, she has the best jumps of all the US ladies. I think we can agree that Christina could benefit from some ballet classes, as well as improving her weak(ish) basics.

I think Christina's main assets are her gorgeous 3F+3T and her relative consistency (though she had somewhat shaky skates at her second JGP and at Nationals+JW last year). The rest of her skating isn't really World team quality at this point, IMO.

Which is fine, because she's shown a lot of improvement since last year. All the things I've mentioned (posture, edges) are better, even if they aren't great yet, which she's done while adding a 3+3. I think she's on track to be quite good, but she's definitely not as good as you're hyping her up to be (yet).

I do agree about Yasmin's jumps. They look off somehow, but I'm not in technique enough to know what it is. It would be a shame if she lost her jumps, as she's a special skater.

chipso1
11-25-2010, 04:36 AM
Oleada, I agree with everything you said except about Zawadzki's spins. :P IMO, she's one of the best spinners in the U.S. In addition to great speed and centering, her positions are also fab:

Layback (http://www.daylife.com/photo/01ZmdSS80KaVy?q=agnes+zawadzki)

Biellman (http://www.daylife.com/photo/0e7J4vvcdp2lG?q=agnes+zawadzki)

Her I-spin is also quite good. Of course, these all look better in motion, but I think she has one of the best classic layback positions in the world.

oleada
11-25-2010, 04:38 AM
maybe I'm misremembering? I remember being really impressed at how fast her spins were despite being a Tom Z. skater. Maybe I should rewatch :lol:

ETA: BTW, though Christina is usually pretty solid with her jumps, I don't think her technique in some, primarily her 2A and 3S, is all that great, and she also has a flutz (rewatching her Austria LP atm, lol)

chipso1
11-25-2010, 04:42 AM
Her FS from Skate Canada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upwD4aCRll4.

Flying sit is at 1:01, layback at 1:36 (which David Pelletier compliments ;)), and combo spin at 3:59. :)

I love Pj's quote at the end: "She'll live to skate another day." So true, and such great perspective!

ETA: And since I'm on an Agnes kick, here's her CoR exhibition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSbQGi71KjY). Such a GORGEOUS 3Lz! Makes me think her FS troubles this season are simply nerves and not her height/technique failing her.

JeffClair1979
11-25-2010, 04:43 AM
I've said this for Sasha before, and I'll say it again for Alissa-- I just wish she'd walk all up in that bitch (anywhere really...) and own it, and then actually carry the win on as a learning experience to the next competition. But, it always seems to end such a klusterfcuk! Not to seem like such a negative nelly, but it seems like the US ladies are SOOOO afraid to bomb these days! This is SUCH an opportunity for ANYONE to walk up and snatch adoration from the crowd right out of anyone's fingers. It's anyone's ballgame. Who's gonna win? That's what I'm waiting for! :D

oleada
11-25-2010, 04:51 AM
Thanks for the links, chipso. I do agree her jump issues are nerves/inexperience. I hadn't realized her layback spin was so lovely :)

But, ugh, that video reminds me of how crappily she's being packaged! This girl could be awesome - someone get her to a team that is more competent at packaging skaters.

pinky166
11-25-2010, 03:51 PM
Oleada, I agree with everything you said except about Zawadzki's spins. :P IMO, she's one of the best spinners in the U.S. In addition to great speed and centering, her positions are also fab:

Layback (http://www.daylife.com/photo/01ZmdSS80KaVy?q=agnes+zawadzki)

Biellman (http://www.daylife.com/photo/0e7J4vvcdp2lG?q=agnes+zawadzki)

Her I-spin is also quite good. Of course, these all look better in motion, but I think she has one of the best classic layback positions in the world.

I wish she'd tilt her head back in the biellman, that's the one thing that bugs me about her layback spin, her head is just sticking out in the biellman position, otherwise it's great.

smarts1
11-25-2010, 04:06 PM
I remember she said in an interview that she wanted to show she was improving so she worked with a spin specialist this summer as well.

mgobluegirl
11-25-2010, 04:33 PM
But, ugh, that video reminds me of how crappily she's being packaged! This girl could be awesome - someone get her to a team that is more competent at packaging skaters.

Wish she could just skate that for her SP. I can't stand that mambo mess.