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Coco
11-06-2010, 02:27 PM
Precisely because there are 8 women who could plausibly be described as medal favorites, the judges had better come in with no agenda and simply reward those who earn it. The only thing we have going for us now is parity. Let whomever claws her way to the top of this heap get the spoils.

I don't think the US will ever get out of it's "ladies slump" until the Nationals judges start judging what happens on the ice at Nationals with international standards.

Forget who's supposed to be the next best thing, and who would be the best if only she didn't x, y, z. Just judge what happens on the ice and don't use PCS to reward or punish past performance.

If they had season long ranking system based on scores from international competitions, they wouldn't have to worry about not rewarding flukes or holding up normally stable competitors who have a bad competition.

RD
11-06-2010, 02:29 PM
Precisely because there are 8 women who could plausibly be described as medal favorites, the judges had better come in with no agenda and simply reward those who earn it. The only thing we have going for us now is parity. Let whomever claws her way to the top of this heap get the spoils.

I don't think the US will ever get out of it's "ladies slump" until the Nationals judges start judging what happens on the ice at Nationals with international standards.

Forget who's supposed to be the next best thing, and who would be the best if only she didn't x, y, z. Just judge what happens on the ice and don't use PCS to reward or punish past performance.

If they had season long ranking system based on scores from international competitions, they wouldn't have to worry about not rewarding flukes or holding up normally stable competitors who have a bad competition.

Well said. Although I think they tried to make an effort last year by really cracking down on Nagasu's URs just like they did at SC.

Coco
11-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Agreed!! And I think it paid off for her in Vancouver, her jumps were better.

burntBREAD
11-06-2010, 03:03 PM
Mirai still has a decent chance of making it to the GPF, looking at the podiums thus far:
NHK:
1. Kostner
2. Flatt
3. Murakami
SC:
1. Czisny
2. Makarova
3. Lacoste
COC
1. Ando
2. Suzuki
3. Leonova

Unfortunately, it's come to the point where Kostner and Czisny are almost definitely going to have an inconsistent second performance (judging from past experience :D) and Lacoste and Leonova will most likely not medal at their second GPs. The ones I see that will most likely make the Final are Flatt, Ando, and Suzuki, and possibly Makarova (and Kostner/Czisny, but it depends), so if Mirai manages to win Trophy Eric Bompard (her biggest competition IMO is Czisny and Mao, and who knows how they're going to do) she'll have enough points to make it to the Final, and her win will break any ties in her favor (1+4 > 2+3). I hope this happens! :lol:

EDIT: I think Rachael Flatt might even be the top qualifier (given Ando doesn't win Cup of Russia, and Czisny doesn't win Trophee Eric Bompard) going into the GPF. The field at Skate America is just :shuffle: , there's no reason she can't win with her consistency, unless Carolina benefits from everyone else bombing again :rolleyes:.

Coco
11-06-2010, 03:05 PM
I think Mirai's biggest competition is herself at this point. ARGH!


ETA: But thanks for the breakdown!!

RD
11-06-2010, 03:06 PM
I think Mirai's biggest competition is herself at this point. ARGH!


Yes, but since she lost training time due to that injury I'm willing to cut her slack...FOR NOW.

krenseby
11-06-2010, 04:36 PM
Mirai is still having problems getting all the way around on her jumps so unless she can get that fixed by nationals I feel Agnes is going to be a real threat for the title. I don't like Agnes's programs at all but her lutz is so crazy huge everyone should be pretty worried if she does two clean programs.

Well, due to Mirai's success at last year's Olympics, I feel like the judges at Nationals will want to make sure that she makes the world team. I am not sure, however, that judges have the power to boost a skater's scores as much as they used to.

Polymer Bob
11-06-2010, 04:44 PM
Well, due to Mirai's success at last year's Olympics, I feel like the judges at Nationals will want to make sure that she makes the world team. I am not sure, however, that judges have the power to boost a skater's scores as much as they used to.

In a close contest, the judges decide who wins. ( US ladies at 2007 Nationals ) If it is not close, the judges' power is diminished. They can only massage the results so far.

pinky166
11-06-2010, 06:20 PM
Idk Kanako or Carolina could win Skate America.

krenseby
11-06-2010, 06:34 PM
In a close contest, the judges decide who wins. ( US ladies at 2007 Nationals ) If it is not close, the judges' power is diminished. They can only massage the results so far.

I am not so sure - judges do have the power to overlook underrotations and to be generous with GOE and levels to a skater they hold in high esteem, whereas a less well-known competitor, new to the scene, might not get that benefit.

DickButtonFan
11-06-2010, 07:08 PM
The problem tho is some of her jumps are about a half turn cheat and she can't hold on to the landing. With that much of a cheat I doubt that's going to go by. She is also starting to lift her free leg a lil too high into her lutz and flip. I don't know if that's because of her time off or what. I really think she will have the underrotations fixed tho by nats like she did for the olympics.

smarts1
11-06-2010, 11:33 PM
^ She should definitely. I mean look at last year. Her jumps were just as bad in 2008-2009 as they were at Cup of China but her jumps were being fully rotated by Nationals and Olympics.

Her lack of training time really hit her hard; her jumps have regressed somehwat back to what they looked like in 2008-2009 (ie taking too long in getting into the rotation and not getting tight enough in the air)... Her LP at Cup of China also looked like she was just trying to get through it, instead of actually being engaged in the choreography and the jumps. (Does anyone else think her flip in the short should have been downgraded?)

I'm sure she'll have a better showing at TEB.

chipso1
11-07-2010, 05:40 PM
Updated List -- Through Cup of China
Just for fun! :)

Top scoring U.S. Senior Ladies

1. Alissa CZISNY (172.37) Skate Canada
2. Christina GAO (167.14) JGP Austria
3. Yasmin SIRAJ (161.75) JGP Sheffield
4. Rachael FLATT (161.04) NHK Trophy
5. Vanessa LAM (156.41) JGP Ostrava
6. Agnes ZAWADZKI (154.35) Skate Canada

7. Mirai NAGASU (146.23) Cup of China
8. Ashley WAGNER (143.73) NHK Trophy
9. Kiri BAGA (138.70) JGP Japan
10. Kristiene GONG (134.32) JGP Sheffield
11. Caroline ZHANG (133.86) NHK Trophy
12. Melissa BULANHAGUI (133.72) Nebelhorn Trophy

13. Amanda DOBBS (132.45) Cup of China
14. Alexe GILLES (125.64) Skate Canada
15. Karen ZHOU (123.63) Coupe de Nice
16. Felicia ZHANG (123.16) JGP Dresden
17. Samantha CESARIO (122.39) JGP Romania
18. Kristine MUSADEMBA (119.45) Cup of China


SA: Flatt, C. Zhang, Gilles
CoR: Zawadzki, Wagner
TEB: Czisny, Nagasu

Grand Prix points thus far: Czisny (15), Flatt (13), Nagasu (9), Wagner (7), Zawadzki (5), Dobbs (5), C. Zhang (4), Musademba (3).

shan
11-07-2010, 06:32 PM
The irrepressible Nagasu would agree -- and did, more or less, in a tweet last week: ``I told my mom my legs are worth gold. . .she told me that it's unfortunate my brain doesn't have the same value.''

I'm just now getting caught up with this thread. This quote from the Phil Hersh blog made me :rofl:

Sylvia
11-07-2010, 06:37 PM
This quote from the Phil Hersh blog made me :rofl:
In fact, it partly inspired my thread titled the irrepressible, exasperating Mirai Nagasu (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75799). ;)

Thanks for your latest compilation of Senior ladies international scores, chipso1! 12 Senior ladies will qualify for Nationals through the 3 Sectionals next week, and from your list, Czisny is scheduled to compete at Mids, Bulanhagui & Cesario at Easterns and Lam & Karen Zhou at Coasts.