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pinky166
09-05-2010, 02:38 PM
I wonder if the reason that byes aren't automatically given to each skater with 2 GPs is to reduce the number of total skaters at nationals. The more skaters, the more expensive the event.

Maybe. I would sort of feel sorry for the 5th place finisher at Midwestern sectionals though if she didn't make it to nationals because Alissa with 2 GPs competed and "took up" one of the spots that qualify for nationals. This potentially could be Kiri and it would be sad if we didn't see her at nationals.

Sylvia
09-05-2010, 02:44 PM
I think what her grace posted actually is on target.

The "name" (ISP) skaters in the Midwestern section that currently don't have a bye to Nationals are 3 -- Czisny, Kiri Baga (unless she qualifies for the JGP Final) and Becky Bereswill (who has started pairs this season). It's not a very deep section in this regard compared to Easterns and Pacific Coasts.


If she [Alissa Czisny] qualified to the Grand Prix final then she would get a bye to Nationals.

ETA: Well, I didn't check the dates of her GP events first. ;)
Actually, even though Czisny's 2nd GP -- TEB -- is after Mids, she still technically could receive a bye to Nationals if she qualified for the GP Final even in the unlikely event of not qualifying though Mids. ;)

5Ali3
09-05-2010, 06:09 PM
I think what her grace posted actually is on target.

It seems like every year, the season starts with a lot of hand-wringing about the cost of running Nationals, especially additional byes that increase the number of practice groups, and then by the time things get underway, the logic of making a skater with two GPs show up at Sectionals in between the GPs sets in, and skaters usually seem to end up with a bye. (Yes, adding additional skaters to Nationals can cost money, but so does sending a skater to a GP: giving the bye to Nationals is protecting the investment in the GP, but this is fall reasoning; summer reasoning is "How can we cut the size of Nationals?")


Actually, even though Czisny's 2nd GP -- TEB -- is after Mids, she still technically could receive a bye to Nationals if she qualified for the GP Final even in the unlikely event of not qualifying though Mids. ;)

Hmm, I'm not sure that's actually true. Technically, a skater who has a bye through a competition and competes anyway, placing below fourth, loses their bye. I can't recall a situation in which a skater earned their GP bye after not qualifying. Let's hope we don't have to find out!

Of course, Mids is 70 minutes from Czisny's homebase. She has a tendency to do a lot of small competitions and may be just as happy to show up at sectionals!

stjeaskategym
09-05-2010, 06:41 PM
Of course, Mids is 70 minutes from Czisny's homebase. She has a tendency to do a lot of small competitions and may be just as happy to show up at sectionals!

True... She could also sprain an ankle the day of Sectionals, be unable to compete, and therefore not qualify to Nationals while all the other skaters who were assigned 2 GPs are home without a care in the world about having to qualify.

I realize it gets more expensive the more skaters you have at Nationals, but it also needs to be as fair as possible. Just about all of the skaters with 2 GPs are going to end up with byes anyway... Why not just make it an actual rule so nobody gets left out due to the luck of which GPs they get?

Qualifying to Nationals is supposed to be an accomplishment... It would feel like more of an accomplishment to receive a bye because you are talented enough to represent your country internationally in 2 GPs rather than because you lucked out with a scheduling conflict.

Coco
09-05-2010, 06:51 PM
I'm sure they are giving a bye at the junior level to skaters with 2 JGPs to make the group of potential stars as big as possible.

At the senior level, perhaps they feel if someone was going to emerge they would have done so already. Their incentive is less to make the pool as large as possible.

But they don't have to "guess" about that if they switch from a "top 4 @ regional" qualification system to qualifying score system. Just saying...

Maybe they'd consider something similar to a PGA cut for determining the field at nationals, like the highest 20 scores from the previous 12 months. They'd take 24 skaters over all, with four spots reserved for injury byes or skaters ranked 21-24. The added plus of this system is the various fields are ALWAYS 24 skaters.

They also wouldn't have to lock themselves into a formal rule that gives a skater a bye to nationals if he/she/they have 2 GPs. 9 times out of ten, someone with two GPs will have earned a qualifying score, but in the event they haven't, then they don't go to Nationals.

And for the qualifying score system, they'd have to figure out a formula that takes into account the variances between judging panels, even though they shouldn't exist.

haribobo
09-05-2010, 07:07 PM
I'm sure they are giving a bye at the junior level to skaters with 2 JGPs to make the group of potential stars as big as possible.


They are giving (or have in the past, at least) byes through regionals to all the 2-JGP skaters. They still have to do sectionals unless they make the JGPF.

5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.

shan
09-05-2010, 07:15 PM
5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.


It would be so strange if that happened.

DreamSkates
09-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Sasha would Def be a huge threat to be US National Champ if she is injury free

After last year's results? Seems like more of the same from her past competitions, to me anyway.

Polymer Bob
09-05-2010, 09:40 PM
5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.

Somebody posted on another board that making the Grand Prix Final is an automatic bye to Nationals.

Jayar
09-05-2010, 09:55 PM
5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.

Very true. But remember when Doug Razzano was an alternate for the JGPF, and everyone knew that a Russian skater who qualified was withdrawing, giving Razzano a bye to Nats? Razzano had to compete at Sectionals, made the top 4, and then went to the JGPF. The 5th place finisher did not get to take his 'spot' at Nats. That's what would suck. If Czisny placed in the top 4 at her Sectional, then made the GPF. The 5th place girl would be left home, even though she was rightly the 4th place girl.

haribobo
09-05-2010, 10:03 PM
What's even more crazy is that the 5th place lady in seniors at Mids will likely be outskated by the 5th place junior lady there. And the 5th place Mids junior lady may end up outskating ALL the junior ladies at Easterns. So I guess that's why I can't get too worked up over Czisny taking up a spot...even the 4th place Mids senior lady will be lucky she wasn't at Pac Coasts this year.

pinky166
09-05-2010, 10:05 PM
What's even more crazy is that the 5th place lady in seniors at Mids will likely be outskated by the 5th place junior lady there. And the 5th place Mids junior lady may end up outskating ALL the junior ladies at Easterns. So I guess that's why I can't get too worked up over Czisny taking up a spot...

Yeah I know, Mids for junior ladies will be intense. I would be worried about Nina but she's doing much better now and plus the judges love her.

jlai
09-06-2010, 12:15 AM
I thought the bye situation got a little out of hand last year, so I'm not surprised USFSA is more cautious with byes whether it is due to costs or past criticisms.

That said, I don't thnk people will put up a fuss if skaters like Czisny get a bye.

Sylvia
09-06-2010, 12:24 AM
It's looking like some of the Grand Prix Senior ladies with byes through Sectionals still may have to compete at heir respective Regionals -- Dobbs (CP), Musademba (SA), Gilles & Zawadzki (SW). Fortunately, as long as they place in the top 4 of their Regional (to be eligible for their bye from Sectionals to Nationals), none of them should take a Sectionals spot from the 5th or 6th (in SW) place finisher at Regionals.

chipso1
09-06-2010, 12:48 AM
I would hope that the USFS would give any skater with 2 SGP events a bye to Nationals. That's a lot of competition in a short amount of time, and to have to skate at a Regional event on top of that seems a little excessive, IMO.