PDA

View Full Version : 2010-2011 US Senior Ladies



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67

RD
08-30-2010, 12:18 AM
A few things...first, I agree that a healthy Nagasu is world-class, but to be honest, I'm a bit worried about her "breakability." This is her second major injury in the past two years.

I'll hang back but I have to admit that your worries about her have been starting to run in the back of my mind as well. I was hoping she'd be more like Kwan/Asada and less like Cohen/Meissner as far as sidelining injuries go...

That said, I'll try to remain optimistic, at least through this fall. If by Nationals, she's not at least in semi-fighting form, that won't be a good sign.



Second, I firmly believe that Zawadzki, at her best, would more than crack the top 6 at Worlds -- she could medal. Her jumps get fabulous GOE, her spins are wonderful, and she has great presentation. If she makes it to Worlds AND goes clean in both programs per your scenario, she will be a major threat.

Hmm, I'll believe it when I see it...we'll see, I guess

Nomad
08-30-2010, 12:19 AM
So, Bob, do you have some kind of bet going? "In how many threads can I bring up/allude to Caroline Zhang's 3rd place finish at 4CC-where-she-scored-160.78-points-and-won-$6,000.00?"

pinky166
08-30-2010, 12:31 AM
Maybe Gao can medal at Worlds this year :). Full arsenal of triple jumps, with a fixed lutz, and a solid 3f-3t combination in both the SP and LP, and working on a 2a-3t in the LP as well. Pretty impressive, I tend to think she could edge out a Lepisto full of doubles with all that content.

mgobluegirl
08-30-2010, 01:00 AM
the much, much hyped Gao will actually live up to it and become a formidable competitor at the World level...

I honestly think the only one who's been uber-hyping Gao is pinky166. I think that Gao's a great skater, she's one that I really root for, and when I saw her at Skate Detroit this summer, I said to my friend that I thought she could challenge for the World team this year. But I think hyping one skater that much is never a good thing. People tend to get disappointed when the skater doesn't live up to completely unrealistic expectations of them, and these expectations wouldn't even be there without so much hyping.

pinky166
08-30-2010, 02:08 AM
Another poster seems to be hyping Zawadzki. My last post was wishful thinking, I believe Christina has a good shot at making the world team this season, but I don't really expect her to medal. I don't think Zawadzki is better than her at this point though, I'd consider them about equal, with a good shot at the World Team but a long shot at a medal there. Further, the only 3-3 Zawadzki has been landing is 3t-3t, some of her other skills are more impressive than Gao, but where Gao has the harder combo, I'd say they are pretty even. I think their results this season internationally will give us a better idea of how good the judges think they are, though.

chipso1
08-30-2010, 02:14 AM
Judges don't care. I think it is very fair to compare Baga to everyone else... they all have to skate at the same Nationals. She knows where she is now in terms of where everyone else is... that's the most important thing. And she has her work cut out for her.

It's not fair to compare Baga to everyone else when she's been sidelined with a serious injury and they've been training full-out all summer. Obviously she will be judged the same as them come Nationals, but given that she's only been skating for roughly 6 weeks, I think we can give her a break right now.

chipso1
08-30-2010, 02:16 AM
Another poster seems to be hyping Zawadzki. My last post was wishful thinking, I believe Christina has a good shot at making the world team this season, but I don't really expect her to medal. I don't think Zawadzki is better than her at this point though, I'd consider them about equal, with a good shot at the World Team but a long shot at a medal there. Further, the only 3-3 Zawadzki has been landing is 3t-3t, some of her other skills are more impressive than Gao, but where Gao has the harder combo, I'd say they are pretty even. I think their results this season internationally will give us a better idea of how good the judges think they are, though.

I'm not hyping Zawadzki, I'm just being realistic about her chances to make the World team. Yes, it's extremely early in the season, but she seems to have made great strides in the off-season in regards to her technical merit and upping her PCS. It will be interesting to see how she fares against Nagasu, Flatt and Wagner, but I think she'll do fairly well.

I love Gao too, but Zawadzki will no doubt out-score her as far as spins and PCS go.

ETA: pinky, Agnes has been training 3Lz-3T and 2A-3T also, so hopefully we'll see them come her GP events.

smarts1
08-30-2010, 03:40 AM
Ehh I've never really saw much in Gao. Sure she can jump (really the flip and toe only, since the rest of her jumps suck), but her spins are no where near where the spin of a senior lady should be. Her flexibility is bleh, her expression and artistry are very bland (even if it has improved this year), and her skating skills are a bit weak. She has the potential to be on the podium at Nationals sometime in her future, but IMO I don't really think that she'll be world medalist material. But that'll be a long road before she even reaches the podium at Nationals cuz Gao has an infinite number of things she must work on.

Now comes Zawadski. She at least has good spins and a correct edge takeoff on the lutz (which is more valuable than the correct edge takeoff on the flip), high and flowy jumps, and much more expression and connection than Gao (even if Agnes flails her arms too much). Zawadski is also a bit weak when it comes to skating skills (Do any of Tom's skaters have good skating skills? I was always very surprised that Jeremy had amazing skating skills.) At this point, I would give the nod to Agnes over Gao.

I mean even at Nationals, Zawadski got over 170 at Junior Nationals this year. Gao got 156 at Senior Nationals. Do the math (even if Gao made a bunch of mistakes and take into account juniors do one less element).

pinky166
08-30-2010, 03:53 AM
Gao has a good loop too. I agree her lutz and salchow could be improved though.

haribobo
08-30-2010, 04:00 AM
For what its worth, here's a current list of ISU PB scores for the US ladies....not every lady is on the list but most of the top ones are....it'll be fun to see how this changes during the season!

Nagasu 190
Flatt 182
Zhang 176
Czisny 168
Wagner 163
Dobbs 158
Zawadzki 156
Gilles 151
Gao 151
Musademba 147
Baga 146
Bereswill 146
Siraj 140
Jiang 131

Nomad
08-30-2010, 04:08 AM
I'm going to wait and see how Zawadzki does on the senior GP before I venture any opinions on her skating. As for the 2011 Nats podium, I'm not ready to write off Nagasu, Wagner, Flatt, Zhang or even Czisny (:P) just yet. Although I will say (as I said in another thread) I really hate Rachael's LP this season. Just an initial impression, based on a summer comp video, I realize that it can and probably will be tweaked, but yeah, I really hate everything about it except maybe her costume. On second thought, no; high necklines don't work for her. I hate the costume, too.

Jayar
08-30-2010, 04:35 AM
It's not fair to compare Baga to everyone else when she's been sidelined with a serious injury and they've been training full-out all summer. Obviously she will be judged the same as them come Nationals, but given that she's only been skating for roughly 6 weeks, I think we can give her a break right now.


That's how you and I are different. And in terms of assignments, it is COMPLETELY fair to compare skaters.

RD
08-30-2010, 04:51 AM
For what its worth, here's a current list of ISU PB scores for the US ladies....not every lady is on the list but most of the top ones are....it'll be fun to see how this changes during the season!

Nagasu 190
Flatt 182
Zhang 176
Czisny 168
Wagner 163
Dobbs 158
Zawadzki 156
Gilles 151
Gao 151
Musademba 147
Baga 146
Bereswill 146
Siraj 140
Jiang 131

At least initially, the battle is on among the top five on that list. Again, it's tough to predict because each skater has shown to peak at different times throughout the season (Czisny, Wagner earlier in the season; Zhang, Nagasu later in the season)...and then, there's the problems and injuries of each individual skater to consider. Finally, it must be determined where the up-and-comers will fit in all this. A few posters are hyping them onto the World Team or onto the Nationals Podium, but hype is just that, hype. From this list, they still have a ways to go before truly challenging the top crop. I don't see something as drastic as what occurred in 2008 occurring again in 2011. (2012, maybe?) Still, if the US ladies' worst nightmare occurs and Nagasu is unable to compete at Nationals (or is in no shape to place there), and Flatt continues on her downward trend, I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if there was a little bit of a shake-up.

chipso1
08-30-2010, 04:54 AM
That's how you and I are different. And in terms of assignments, it is COMPLETELY fair to compare skaters.

But I'm not talking in terms of assignments. I'm talking about how Baga isn't skating up to her high level now because she's recovering from a stress fracture, but that come Nationals she should look better.

I agree that she shouldn't be awarded a JGP assignment over another U.S. lady who is skating/scoring better than her at this point in time. And that's why Siraj, Jiang, Gong, Cesario, Gao and Davis were all given assignments before her: they've all scored fairly well this summer (better than Kiri's 116+) and shown they deserve initial assignments.

ETA: I talked about giving Kiri a "break" for now in regards to the not-so-great scores she posted at the MN State Championships (because of her limited ice time this summer). :)

chipso1
08-30-2010, 04:58 AM
RD,

How is Flatt on a "downward trend?" She skated incredibly well at both Nationals and the Olympics, but looked utterly exhausted from her long season at Worlds. I don't think her first outing this summer is entirely indicative of how she'll perform later on this season, nor do I think it indicates any sort of "downward trend."