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mgobluegirl
08-25-2010, 01:01 AM
whole post

:rolleyes:

pinky166
08-25-2010, 01:12 AM
:rolleyes:

Well, look at it this way. Do you know many white american girls who are 5'4" -5'5" and 100-105 pounds and not prepubescent or anorexic? My guess is no. Mao and Yuna are both that size and appear to be perfectly healthy, and most of their teammates are around the same size as well. In Japan, Korea, and China, girls of that size are all over the place, dime a dozen, but the same cannot be said of white american girls in the US. It's all about physics.

RD
08-25-2010, 01:15 AM
A list of all the females who were hyped at a young age and then continued to do well in later years despite setbacks:

Michelle
Yuna
Mao
Miki
Mirai

Kwan? Yes.
Kim? Yes.
Asada? Yes.
Ando? I dunno about her. She did win one world championship, but I think most fans expected more from her, especially at these Games.
Nagasu? WAYYYY TOO SOON to tell now. Champions don't quit, and find a way to bounce back from tough times. Her response to her Worlds disappointment will be VERY telling as to where she'll be headed, IMHO.


I'd throw in Kostner, Ando, Nam, Flatt, and Cohen into the list of overhyped skaters. Yes, some achieved significantly more than others, but in the end they were expected to achieve more than they did in their careers by either their fans or the media.

caseyedwards
08-25-2010, 01:22 AM
Slutskaya was hyped and had HUGE setback and then HUGE comeback.

pinky166
08-25-2010, 01:29 AM
Slutskaya was hyped and had HUGE setback and then HUGE comeback.

True. But she is Russian not American and the atmosphere there is very different from that in the states. I think a lot of the problem with the US girls who aren't of Asian background, in addition to there bodies changing much more through puberty, is being able to stay motivated to keep skating while living, dealing, and constantly being around kids who are doing things the American way.

Triple Butz
08-25-2010, 01:34 AM
True. But she is Russian not American and the atmosphere there is very different from that in the states. I think a lot of the problem with the US girls who aren't of Asian background, in addition to there bodies changing much more through puberty, is being able to stay motivated to keep skating while living, dealing, and constantly being around kids who are doing things the American way.

But half the people on the above list are Japanese???? :confused:

chipso1
08-25-2010, 01:43 AM
To bring race into the discussion is just :rolleyes: in its own right, but there are plenty of Caucasian U.S. ladies doing well both nationally and internationally. Zawadzki, Flatt, Wagner, and Dobbs come to mind immediately.

Pinky, to insinuate that the work ethic of Asian female skaters is superior to non-Asian female skaters is ridiculous.

Flatt, Nagasu, Wagner, Gao, Zawadzki, Czisny, Musademba, Dobbs, et al are all fabulous skaters and I don't believe their skin color has anything to do with it.

mgobluegirl
08-25-2010, 01:48 AM
...so you can't be white and be good at figure skating? Or maybe you can't be white and not want to drink/smoke/date/eat junk food instead of skate? There are plenty examples of "white American girls" who have been able to achieve pretty incredible things in skating, and not all of them were prepubescent.

And I think that Rachael Flatt belongs on your list of "females who were hyped at a young age and then continued to do well in later years despite setbacks" JUST as much as Mirai Nagasu at this point in their careers. But oh wait, she's not Asian, she can't be on your "successful" list.

pinky166
08-25-2010, 02:11 AM
...so you can't be white and be good at figure skating? Or maybe you can't be white and not want to drink/smoke/date/eat junk food instead of skate? There are plenty examples of "white American girls" who have been able to achieve pretty incredible things in skating, and not all of them were prepubescent.

And I think that Rachael Flatt belongs on your list of "females who were hyped at a young age and then continued to do well in later years despite setbacks" JUST as much as Mirai Nagasu at this point in their careers. But oh wait, she's not Asian, she can't be on your "successful" list.

:rolleyes: I didn't mean it like that. Cultures are just different that's all. And you can't deny that most (not all) of the top female skaters at the international level are Asian. It's just the reality, and chances are there's probably a reason for it. Most skaters can't be bendy flexible and power jumpers at the same time, the few that can tend (not all - Irina would be an example of this) to be Asian.

Prancer
08-25-2010, 02:20 AM
A list of all the females who were hyped at a young age and then dissappointed:

You forgot a few, like Naomi Nari Nam, Tiffany Chin, Ann Patrice McDonough, Beatrisa Liang, Ye Bin Mok, Elizabeth Kwon........

Most skaters who are hyped at young ages do not fulfill their promise. A few of them do--like Tara Lipinski, for example.

pinky166
08-25-2010, 02:24 AM
You forgot a few, like Naomi Nari Nam, Tiffany Chin, Ann Patrice McDonough, Beatrisa Liang, Ye Bin Mok, Elizabeth Kwon........

Most skaters who are hyped at young ages do not fulfill their promise. A few of them do--like Tara Lipinski, for example.

Fair point. But I wouldn't say most don't fulfill their promise, it's more like 50/50. Plus, Gao is not that young, she'll be 17 by this season's Worlds and she's probably done growing.

Prancer
08-25-2010, 02:26 AM
Fair point. But I wouldn't say most don't fulfill their promise, it's more like 50/50.

I'll stick with most. I think 50/50 is way too optimistic.

jlai
08-25-2010, 02:33 AM
whole post

I don't know about the work ethic part but I agree with you about American diet in general (all that fat and sugar...). That said, top athletes are usually on a strict diet. Height may come into play though. For example, Alexe Gilles' jump consistency may have sth to do with her being 5'7".

pinky166
08-25-2010, 03:11 AM
I don't know about the work ethic part but I agree with you about American diet in general (all that fat and sugar...). That said, top athletes are usually on a strict diet. Height may come into play though. For example, Alexe Gilles' jump consistency may have sth to do with her being 5'7".

Exactly. Most American women tend to be taller and heavier than Asian women, regardless of what they eat. I mean, Mao is almost as tall as most of the guys in Japan and in the US she's be considered petite/average. Further, Rachael Flatt works out a ton and probably eats super healthy but she'll never be built like Yuna, Mao, or Miki as she is naturally sturdier. Carolina, Alexe, Cynthia, Alissa are all tall and have bigger bones which make the jumps harder. Most figure skaters are on similar diets, and yet they are all different sizes, and generally the Asian females tend to be slight and of petite to average height which makes them ideal for this sport.

mgobluegirl
08-25-2010, 03:23 AM
I'm not arguing with the fact that women of Asian heritage tend to stay more petite than a lot of Caucasian girls. I just think its wrong to say that the Asian girls are brought up in a way that is more conducive to being competitive skaters. Not all Americans eat terribly and act like lazy slobs and I think competitive skaters in general are excellent examples of those who don't, regardless of race. Yes, many of the top skaters worldwide right now are Asian, but it hasn't always been like that (remember all the hype about the "Asian Invasion" a few years ago?). There are many excellent examples on both sides. I think the current abundance of good Asian skaters has more to do with where skating is currently popular than them being somehow genetically or culturally superior.

All this being said, I'm really rooting for Christina. I've been watching her since she was a juvenile at my regional and I think she's amazing. But I think she's amazing because of her skating skills, her work ethic, and how much she continues to improve. And I don't think these things about her are the way they are because she is of Asian heritage.