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View Full Version : Who medals in 96 womens AA with everyone hitting



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vesperholly
05-10-2010, 08:50 PM
I don't mean to be rude but I think the people who voted for Khorkina probably weren't following the sport in 1996 and just assume she was a huge threat. The truth was she was never going to medal unless there was a debacle of Sydney proportions. It just speaks to her reputation and legacy, though!

ITA. She didn't become an AA threat until the 00 Games. In 96 her vault and floor was still weak.

I disagree that Dawes would've medaled. She had too many form problems to be a threat if everyone hit. The home team advantage score bump that Dawes sometimes benefited from would've gone to the more established Miller.

The qualifying results are interesting. Podkopayeva, Miller, Kotchetkova. I would've been OK with that podium.
http://www.gymnasticsresults.com/olympics/og1996wagqual.html

BigB08822
05-10-2010, 10:28 PM
ITA. She didn't become an AA threat until the 00 Games. In 96 her vault and floor was still weak.

I disagree that Dawes would've medaled. She had too many form problems to be a threat if everyone hit. The home team advantage score bump that Dawes sometimes benefited from would've gone to the more established Miller.

The qualifying results are interesting. Podkopayeva, Miller, Kotchetkova. I would've been OK with that podium.
http://www.gymnasticsresults.com/olympics/og1996wagqual.html

The qualifying results are indeed interesting. If you only look at Optionals, which makes the most sense because scores did not carry over, the results of those ended up like this:

1. Amanar (39.387)
2. Dawes (39.187)
3. Milo (39.111)
4. Gogean (39.100)
5. Strug (39.073)

Goes to show how there was some nice over scoring for Team Finals in that last group.

Pod and Miller were the only two to score 39 or higher in compulsories.

judgejudy27
05-10-2010, 10:32 PM
The judging of Amanar was perplexing often in 95 and 96 as often it seemed the judges were just in love with her and other times they were very cool. She was both under and overscored at times. She did perform better in team optionals than the AA but the huge spread in scores was something else. The excitement over her scores in team optionals is probably what caused the switch with Marinescu, Belu probably thought based on those scores if she hit she would be unbeatable in the AA but turned out to be far from the case.

BigB08822
05-11-2010, 12:09 AM
Was Marinescu too young to be in Atlanta? Hasn't that been proven?

judgejudy27
05-11-2010, 12:31 AM
Yeah the funniest thing is Marinescu is actually younger than Vanessa Atler by a month. However since her age was falsified by a year and the age limit changed around then Marinescu got to compete in the 95 Worlds, 96 Worlds, 96 Olympics, and 97 Worlds, while Atler just missed the cut off date to compete in any of them. Yet some people actually feel sympathy for Marinescu for getting pulled from the AA in favor of Amanar twice when she shouldnt have been at any of those events.

If people were consistent in how they handled that sort of thing they would probably investigate further and maybe take away Romanias team gold in 95, Olympic team bronze in 96, and team gold in 97, in addition to the beam silver of Marinescu at the 96 event Worlds.

chipso1
05-11-2010, 05:29 AM
I meant to vote for Dawes instead of Khorkina. :o Just noticed that mistake...that'll teach me not to vote on the run next time.

Dawes' FX is one of my favorite of those Games. :( At least she was able to redeem herself somewhat and get bronze in the EFs.

VIETgrlTerifa
05-11-2010, 05:34 AM
Right and she did perform well in the UB finals.

Quintuple
05-11-2010, 08:24 AM
HAH. Before seeing this poll I was totally thinking about how much I hated Lilia's floor performances in the '94-'95 era. (I didn't love '96, but it wasn't as heinous. But no, I did not think I was at the Boshoi.)

There are certain associations that give me a headache thinking of them. One thing is neon orange crackers with brown peanut butter sandwiched in between. Every time I saw them in elementary school, I got this feeling of a dry, parched, barfy headache. I get the same feeling when I think of that neon pink/yellow/blue UKR leotard from '94 and Lilia doing Hava Nagilia or that disco Indian/Arabic music. I screamed at the TV as she would wait 5 seconds facing her final corner, then did little hops and arm waves, then waited 5 seconds more. Ooooh, that Lilia.

That said, I still cringe every time I watch Mo's funky chicken to the really stereotypical cheesy "Chinese" sound in the music. Ugggh.

I know there are so many examples of good choreo from the late '80s on FX, but I want to point to Vanda Hadarean from 1992: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjo5RJXUPvs

So much variety of movement and fluidity between passes. Of course there are good later examples of real "dance pieces" (Yang Yun from 2000), but yeah. Kinda like how '80s bars is SO much more complex and interesting than 1992-2000 bars.

OK, [/side-topic-rant], sorry.

vesperholly
05-11-2010, 12:11 PM
The more I think about floor, the more I struggle to find routines that I really enjoyed, rather than just tolerated. :lol: Dance has devolved to posing, especially with the Americans. I hated all the US FX that year.

This set from Nikolett Krausz (HUN) in the 96 team finals is great, very enjoyable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lA7HUr6Sh4&feature=PlayList&p=6124A6F2B85809DF&playnext_from=PL&index=2

Braulio
05-11-2010, 08:29 PM
Podkopayeva, Huilan and Dawes

briancoogaert
05-11-2010, 09:26 PM
I don't know if LiliaPod was clearly the best. When it came to Beam, UB, and VT, I thought Mo was clearly better. Don't get me wrong, though, I am extremely happy she was the 1996 Olympic AA champ because LiliaPod is probably the best Olympic AAer we had until Nastia Liukin graced the top of the podium.
My opinion is that Lilia was clearly the best because she was able to score very high at every event, was unbeatable at FX, and was very solid.
I know the thread is about everyone being perfect, but I can't imagine Mo Huilan without any mistake, though she is one of my favorite gymnast ! lol

gk_891
05-14-2010, 03:51 PM
I give an edge to Mo Huilan. There was a lightness and ease to her gymnastics that Podkopayeva didn't quite have, especially on UB & BB (especially on BB, it was like a walk in the park for her and she did everything with supreme amplitude). I wasn't the biggest fan of Podkopayeva but I do admire her beautiful form and power. It's just that I found that there was a slightly 'heavy' quality to her gymnastics and her FX choreography seem to consist of a lot of poses (whether it be faux-Arabian or of a ballerina). Many called her style balletic but IMO, she seemed to be imitating a ballerina rather than truly embodying the style. Here are my scores if everyone hits cold (which would never happen though, especially with Huilan who always faltered under pressure). Also, if Dina Kochetkova went with her pike Barani rather than the Yurchenko 1.5, she could've walked away with the gold (she was my other favourite for the gold medal). She had such a smooth and velvety quality to her gymnastics and I thought her FX choreography was superiour to that of Podkopayeva (just in terms of basic construction). But I'm also a little puzzled as to why she didn't throw her full difficult during the AA on the other events but my scores below are based on what she was capable of doing (which i believe is the point of this thread). As for the Americans, I wasn't impressed with Dawes' form and I didn't like Miller's lack of amplitude on both UB and FX (I also couldn't stand her prissy dancing). On UB, her release moves and dismount were much too low for my liking but then again, I've always had that problem with her. As for Galieva, I'm not sure as to how to score her on FX and she had amazing posture and flexibility and power but she was really struggling with her double layout (I don't ever recall her having problems with it before). However, Podkopayeva was definitely the deserving champion in the long run because she could hit when it counted and that's what champions do.

Mo Huilan
V - 9.900 UB - 9.850 BB - 9.875 FX - 9.825 Total - 39.450

Dina Kochetkova
V - 9.750 UB - 9.850 BB - 9.850 FX - 9.900 Total - 39.350

Roza Galieva
V - 9.800 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.850 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.250

Svetlana Khorkina
V - 9.800 UB - 9.850 BB - 9.800 FX - 9.800 Total - 39.250

Lilia Podkopayeva
V - 9.825 UB - 9.775 BB - 9.800 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.250

Dominique Moceanu
V - 9.800 UB - 9.825 BB - 9.825 FX - 9.750 Total - 39.200

Dominique Dawes
V - 9.775 UB - 9.800 BB - 9.775 FX - 9.825 Total - 39.175

Simona Amanar
V - 9.850 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.700 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.150

Shannon Miller
V - 9.725 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.850 FX - 9.800 Total - 39.125

Lavinia Milosovici
V - 9.750 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.750 FX - 9.825 Total - 39.075

Gina Gogean
V - 9.800 UB - 9.650 BB - 9.750 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.050

VIETgrlTerifa
05-14-2010, 04:53 PM
Yeah that was my problem with LiliaPod's FX choreography as well. It was just a bunch of poses with no real flow or cohesion. Her compulsory FX on the other hand showed off an excellent dancer so I have no idea why her optional FX choreography was so bad.

judgejudy27
05-14-2010, 06:09 PM
Oh giving the scores you would give yourself rather than what the judges would give with them all hitting cold is fun. Here are the scores I would have given if everyone had hit cold with their top difficulty:

Podkopayeva- Vault 9.850, Bars 9.700, Beam 9.85, Floor 9.900
Amanar- Vault 9.900, Bars 9.800, Beam 9.70, Floor 9.900
Miller- Vault 9.700, Bars 9.800, Beam 9.850, Floor 9.600
Milosovici- Vault 9.600, Bars 9.600, Beam 9.650, Floor 9.700
Gogean- Vault 9.850, Bars 9.75, Beam 9.75, Floor 9.850
Moceanu- Vault 9.65, Bars 9.60, Beam 9.70, Floor 9.60
Huilan- Vault 9.875, Bars 9.95, Beam 9.95, Floor 9.75
Khorkina- Vault 9.75, Bars 9.90, Beam 9.80, Floor 9.55
Galieva- Vault 9.825, Bars 9.775, Beam 9.85, Floor 9.70
Kochetkova- Vault 9.725, Bars 9.85, Beam 9.90, Floor 9.875
Dawes- Vault 9.70, Bars 9.80, Beam 9.75, Floor 9.80

My final AA results with all doing their best:

Gold- Huilan 39.525
Silver- Kochetkova 39.400
Bronze tie- Podkopayeva 39.300
Bronze tie- Amanar 39.300
Gogean- 39.200
Galieva- 39.150
Dawes- 39.050
Khorkina- 39.00
Miller- 38.950
Milosovici- 38.550
Moceanu- 38.550

Huilan is the queen IMO. If she had hit cold she should have won the AA by a landslide. Her bars and double yurchenkos were grossly underscored all Games long too. How her stunning bars set with tiny steps on landing were only getting 9.8 is beyond me. Of course like often she still did herself in in the end largely. Such a shame as she was by far the most overall talented gymnast of the time IMO.

Podkopayeva was always overscored on bars. She had so many form breaks on that event and few spectacular moves. I actually found her vault and beam underscored often though. Of course she unfortunately never truly fully hit a beam set in Atlanta, lots of small breaks and little errors in all her routines there.

Miller was a bit underscored on bars in Atlanta I thought. I actually liked her bars set in Atlanta. I never liked her floor much and she looked even worse by 96 with all the super power tumblers and more interesting floor choreography. Other than beam the field had passed her by for the most part by 96 IMO, she was nowhere near the threat she had been from 92-94 anymore. Strangely a year or two earlier I had been thinking Milo was standing the test of time better than Shannon, but by Atlanta Shannon' gymnastics looked alot better than Milo overall.

I love Amanar's vaulting and tumbling, and her tumbling in 96 was so sensationally not only powerful but exquisite in form and execution it nearly made me ignore her much weaker dance, nearly but not quite totally. Her bars in Atlanta was actually quite good unbelievably enough.

I actually thought Gogean's form on bars was excellent even if her routine was a basic one with no amplitude. I would have scored her a bit higher there then she was at the Games. Her beam was overscored thoughout the Games. I thought her yurchenko 1 1/2 was excellent and underscored throughout the Games.

Milosovici was SO bad by 96. I actually liked her from 91-94, but she looked like a generic has been by Atlanta. Her scores were still low for a top gymnast even when she hit but she wouldnt have even been a top gymnast anymore by then if I were a judge. I would say she wouldnt have even made the AA except Belu would have pulled Marinescu out for any of his 3 darlings no matter what, so she would have been in the AA regardless I guess. The only thing I liked about her gymnastics by 96 was her tumbling on floor and beam.

Young Moceanu was one of the most overscored gymnasts in history IMO. Her form was horrible and she got hardly any deductions for it. That is why I regret leaving her out of this poll by accident, like it or not she was definitely a big threat for an AA medal if she hit all her events due to her blatant overscoring at the time. Probably more than Miller and as much as Dawes.

Kochetkova was so underrated and underscored on nearly every event. IMO she was by far the best Russian but I wouldnt be surprised if they were campaigning for Galieva and Khorkina over her. She messed up her vaults in the AA and didnt hit her best sets in event finals so it might not have mattered much though, still was robbed of a beam medal in event finals though IMO even with her mistakes.

I liked Galieva's gymnastics more in 92 than 96 but she seemed more a contender in 96 than 92. It is amazing what experience and more favortism from the powerful head coach will do for you. Unfortunately her bad karma in the Olympics continued and she was not able to give her best to capatilize and win any medals. I liked her beam and vault despite the herky jerky dance she had on beam by Atlanta.

Dawes was a somewhat overscored and overrated gymnast with flawed form I felt. Still better than Moceanu IMO.

Khorkina's vault was undermarked in Atlanta, but her tumbling on floor was so weak this year.

I would like to do some of my scores for the gymnasts who werent in the AA if they hit their best routines too:

Strug- Vault 9.65, Bars 9.55, Beam 9.30, Floor 9.55
Marinescu- Vault 9.55, Bars 9.75, Beam 9.90, Floor 9.75
Grosheva- Vault 9.80, Bars 9.80, Beam 9.75, Floor 9.80
Phelps- Vault 9.75, Bars 9.825, Beam 9.825, Floor 9.70
Borden- Vault 9.55, Bars 9.70, Beam 9.850, Floor 9.80

I feel bad in a way dumping on America's gutsy heroine of the Games, but Strug's scores throughout the team event in Atlanta made me laugh. She has the worst form from a noteable gymnast I have ever seen, and while her floor tumbling was powerful her dance and landings were like a huge elephant out on the mat. I actually hated her gymnastics much more by 96 than I had back in 92, and I didnt even like her back in 92. I came up with her beam score thinking of Mo Hulian or Shannon Miller fell on beam should Kerri and her pitiful excuse of a beam set outscore them and my answer was no.

I loved Marinescu on beam and liked her on every event except vault. I wish she had been in the AA instead of the generic past her prime Milo. I wish she had hit her best set in beam finals too, I am sure the judges would have given her a medal atleast if Gogean got one.

I actually like Grosheva's gymnastics alot. Too bad she was inconsistent. She was a better AA gymnast than Khorkina this year and I wish she had been in the AA instead of her.

Phelps was underrated IMO. Too bad in Atlanta all her beam routines were wobbly and off. However she was one of the only ones to do the Phelps vault properly with perfect form and execution and got no credit for it. She didnt have the power on vault but her execution of the Phelps outside of her lack of amplitude was much better than the Romanians. Her bars was terrific. Her form on every event was excellent and underappreciated.

Borden had wonderful routines on beam and floor in the team finals which were both undermarked IMO.

BigB08822
05-14-2010, 09:32 PM
I would still have gone a bit higher on floor for Strug because of her power but not much higher than say 9.700 Her beam set was just AWFUL. Those layouts! :eek: Where is the vomit emoticon when we need it!? The sad thing is, I don't think Mocheanu had much better form on beam on her layouts.